Bullying problem when azureus are feeding

[alex_azure]

Hi guys,

its about my sexed pair of azureus...
when i feed the 2 frogs the male seems to almost "bully" the female for food. she is smaller than the male as she is 3/4 months younger.

Male=around 9 months
Female=around 6/7 months

They both seem very happy in there home and are both eating ok with no problems. this may just be normal behavior but as these cost me alot of money and also i know they can be quite delicate animals. these are also my personal favorites of the dart frog world and am very happy i have some and would be heartbroken if anything was to happen to the 2 of them. your knowledge would be much appreciated and welcome.

Am I worrying over nothing ?

[Cindy Dicken]

Alex,
who sexed the azureus?
We have had azureus that, from their looks 'appeared' to be one sex only to find out they were the opposite.

Also, what size tank are these in?

[alex_azure]

Alex,
who sexed the azureus?
We have had azureus that, from their looks 'appeared' to be one sex only to find out they were the opposite.

Also, what size tank are these in?

hi thanks for the reply.
they are in an 18" 18" 24" exo terra. is that a problem then?
the breeder i got them off sexed them for me but im pretty sure they are male and female...
Male= quite long and slim with big front toe pads.
Female= quite small (due to being a bit younger) and rounder body shape.smaller toe pads.

[Cindy Dicken]

Alex, anytime you can provide the darts with more space, that will always be a benefit.
It's possible that the breeder might be mistaken on the frogs sex. We've been fooled before!
I would say keep a very close eye on them and watch for further aggression. If the aggression escalates you need to make arrangements to seperate them.
You might start feeding them in seperate corners of the tank to see if this helps.

[alex_azure]

Alex, anytime you can provide the darts with more space, that will always be a benefit.
It's possible that the breeder might be mistaken on the frogs sex. We've been fooled before!
I would say keep a very close eye on them and watch for further aggression. If the aggression escalates you need to make arrangements to seperate them.
You might start feeding them in seperate corners of the tank to see if this helps.

ok then thanks for the advice. i think there is plenty of room in the tank for them. it maybe the male just showing whos boss...who knows. ill keep an eye on them, its not got to the stage where i think they should be broke up. he may be just dominant.
thanks for all the advice.

[dendromom]

Also, azureus are natural WWF fighting champions. It's in their blood. As long as there is no weight loss or hiding going on, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[kristy55303]

i'm concerned with your drts age. they are not reliably sexed at that age. you may have two males or two females. pat nabors is a good place to get a pair of sexed azureus and they are around 250.00 for a pair that will breed soon after receiving.. usually...within few day as i have experienced success to a few months. azureus can be the hardest species of darts to sex and at 6/7 months old....i assure you....you can not sex with the best certainty. they can intimidate eachother even without aggression and you not knowing it.....causing death.....and the agression you are describing sounds like they are not a sexed pair and would be concerned. I wuld separate until atleast twelve months. then have them sexed by someone knowledgeable in sexing them. i always think it is best to be safe than sorry.

[kristy55303]

6 months and 9 months impossible to sex in my opinion. Even the best can make mistakes sexing at 12 months of age. A male can actually look like a female and from your email....i definately believe you have two females....so you will either have to separate since there was agression and get males for them or you could just return/exchange like we talked about. auratus do well in groups so that is a good beginner species of darts. since you wanted to know what can go together. i checked out that website and gave you my advice on the uk website.....and which darts do best together ....so just curious....what did you decide to do? kristy

[thelifespark]

kristy you said something about the azureus breeding quite soon after recieving them when properly sexed at the right age but I was curious...what if you haven't got room at the moment for lots of little froglets? I'm pretty new to this...I've loved poison dart frogs for a while but only recently found out you could keep them. I'm just dieing to get a pair but at the moment I haven't got space for more than one tank. Is there a way to keep them from breeding?

[kristy55303]

yes...separate lol....they may breed no matter what....try not misting any more than they need. froglets get raised in q-tine tubs usually in this hobby and can be sold. you dont need another tank for froglets in my opinion. another way is to not provide them with petri dishes under a cocohut to breed on. if they lay elsewhere, you can just not provide a place for the froglets to carry their tads to. If you have a male and a female, the likely hood they will want to breed is very likely as that is what nature intends them to do. these are my opinions on the matter. maybe others can chime in. i dont know exactly what your set-up is. you could get froglets no matter what if there is a place for the darts to drop their tads in....say a small water area in your viv?? others can chime in on this also....as all my darts i keep are for both conservation, hobby, and breeding purposes. kristy

[thelifespark]

thanks for the suggestions. I would eventually like to breed but it just doesn't seem feasible with the current space. Although if I don't need a seperate tank it could be alright I suppose...but since I've never done it before I'm afraid of killing the little guys and it's not like I have a bunch of people lined up at my door yammering for frogs. Could I sell them to pet shops or reptile conventions or something? Otherwise I wouldn't know who to sell them to.

[kristy55303]

yes reptile conventions are a great place to sell....pet shops iffy if you care about the animals as they rarely know what they are doing or proper husbandry skills. but froglets dont need vivs just containers and are sellable. kristy

[kristy55303]

you could also sell the froglets on this board and dendro locally and people will likely respond and/or learn how to ship them to to ohters out of your area. hope this helps. kristy

[BD79]

I have a pair of azureus in an exo 18x18x24 that did the same thing. For the first week or so, the female would stomp the male at feeding time. I started waiting until they were in separate areas of the tank, then feed them as far from each other as possible. I would usually begin feeding the female since she was more aggressive, then the male would get his food. They have since gotten used to feeding together and sharing food, and they produce eggs for me regularly.

Thelifespark- You can keep frogletts together in small shoe box sized rubbermaid containers for many months. This is a cheap, easy solution to not having enough room for frogletts if yours do start breeding. I would not recommend selling frogletts until they are a couple months old, and I would not ship them until a minimum of 3 months of age. The rubbermaid containers are the perfect solution to raising your frogs to an appropriate age until you sell them or trade them.

Just my .02

[thelifespark]

I appreciate the help and suggestions. If I can learn how to ship them I suppose that would make selling them easier.

I guess I ought to not worry about it too much until I've got my viv set up and frogs in it I'm getting a little ahead of myself in my excitement.

[Philsuma]

Good thread.

Strict observation at feeding time is probably the most important time for descerning a potential problem. If a frog doesn't appear when FF are added or if one frog seems to be an aggressive eater and another frog is only getting 1/2 as many flies....that sort of thing...it is very important to note at feeding time. Feedings, may be the only time one can really detect such problems as stress, aggression, injury or even disease.

In all cases, if there is group of Frogs and one or more are not eating as aggressively at feeding time...I would look to seperating some or all of them, just based on that alone.