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Dendobates tinctorious 'Azureus' lineage(s) ?
#1
So i have been trying to read up about Azureus b/c i wanted to get a pair, and i did. The male came from Saurian Ent. And the female was from Kevin Hoff Lines. I don't know if i want to raise tads or not, but if i did, how do i know how related the parents are? I think that in 1968 there were like 10 brought back from Suriname, and started the hobby. So are all of our Azureus pretty closely related? if so, how does a hobbyist know which frogs to breed to or not?
1.0.0 husband
1.1.0 horses
2.3.0 dogs
0.0.2 Gray tree frogs
0.3.0 Azureus
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#2
Dendrobates tinctorius 'Azureus' is one of the most commonly bred frogs in the U.S hobby. You may have trouble selling them for much profit or even trading them...they are just so common. There have been several different 'year' imports but there probably aren't more than a dozen people who can claim 'lines'.

That said, on this particular common species, we are best served by going by what we have - 'Wattley,,Nabors, Stewart' ect. Unless you have talked with one of those people, or can trust someone who claims direct receipt, then all you can say is you have 'Azureus'. Kind of a 'pet' frog lineage.

On 'inbreeding'...frogs are not like mammals, where depression and problems occur more often. Breeding frogs does not have that same issue, problem...in short.
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#3
i would not expect to ever make money on them. i'm not interested in that, anyway. just the science of doing it, but i would want to have a way to place them before i ever got involved in it. i will probably flush the majority of eggs instead of hatching them. i was just curious about lines and relations. i got mine bc they are a pretty frog and i want to watch them. their viv is next to my computer, so i will be sure to see them many times a day.
1.0.0 husband
1.1.0 horses
2.3.0 dogs
0.0.2 Gray tree frogs
0.3.0 Azureus
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#4
Just because they are common doesn't mean they are not in demand, I would recommend raising some juvies and selling or trading them. If you get overwhelmed just let the parent's tank raise them, put a water source in the viv, small Tupperware dish or plastic container with water. I tank raise my Brazilian yellowheads this way and pull froglets when they are a few weeks old, sometimes older. They morph out bigger and I do not have to deal with feeding individual tads and pulling eggs.
-Beth
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#5
i might be interested in letting them do it. i will see if they try to have eggs and if so, place a low water dish in the enclosure. it will be a awhile as i am still doing fecals.
1.0.0 husband
1.1.0 horses
2.3.0 dogs
0.0.2 Gray tree frogs
0.3.0 Azureus
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#6
Philsuma Wrote:Dendrobates tinctorius 'Azureus' is one of the most commonly bred frogs in the U.S hobby. You may have trouble selling them for much profit or even trading them...they are just so common.

This is true for just about any frog. If a common frog is priced right, it's easier to sell than an uncommon frog that's priced right. It's why pet stores carry the most common animals. Their common because they are easily bred and also because they are the most frequently purchased. Common does not equate to hard to sell.
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#7
I found Azureus are pretty easy to sell locally, but like Beth, I tank raise which limits production, and I have a local exotics shop that will purchase extra animals from me wholesale. Though they are common, they are blue, and that seems to be an easy selling point for people entering the hobby. I'd start checking out local shops and see if they are equipped to house and sell frogs...the place I use was already sell FF cultures, and routinely stocked different darts, so they were familiar with their care. They also are willing to trade - and they have some interesting plants available from local enthusiasts. Good luck!
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#8
Vending at shows for the last couple of years, Azureus and Leucs are the two best sellers. Let's not forget about the high turnover rate in this hobby. There's always new people joining the hobby and they want these frogs. They're very popular!
Glenn
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#9
Back to the original question, there are only three, possibly four importations of Dendrobates tinctorius 'azueus' into the country. And all our frogs are related to those, which probably numbered less than 70 total, possibly significantly fewer. Dale Bertram brought into the US the first D. azureus. I don't remember if it was a pair or a few more. I believe Dale imported a year or two later a few more frogs. The second (or third) group were from Jack Wattley and were also few in number (under 10). Lastly the Baltimore Aquarium imported a small group of I believe around 30 animals (possibly as many as 50) and released a few animals from their captive breedings. Keeping D. tinctorius 'azureus' in line is stupid in my opinion. The frogs only occur in a small area. They all potentially interbreed, so keeping out some animals from breeding with others is stupid. Its going to increase the problem we already see of smaller animals and poorer breeding.

Best,

Chuck
Charles Powell
www.frogday.org
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#10
Love the history Chuck, as only you can provide!

That's DR. bertram from WI or thereabouts? And his importation was in 'the eightys'?

Sean Stewart distributed a bunch of the Baltimore line Azureus and Jack holds the line of 'small or no spot', I believe?

Good stuff.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#11
Thanks. Its was Dr. Dale Bertram (medical doctor and I think he worked in the ER, maybe not) and he was up around Wisconsin somewhere (don't remember where although I could look through my old papers) and his importations were in the 80's. Wattley's animals were not small or no spot when he got them in - they were just azureus and have since been line breed by some into small or no spot forms.

Best,

Chuck
Charles Powell
www.frogday.org
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#12
So Wattley did not do any line breeding?
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#13
ecichlid Wrote:So Wattley did not do any line breeding?

Not to my knowledge. Jack was WAY more interested in his fishies.
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#14
I had to ask. Jack was the king of line breeding Discus. I had to wonder if he did the same with the no-spots.
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