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Dendrobates tinctorius "Robertus"
#1
I made the plunge and picked up a pair of WC Robertus from SNDF. I've placed the details of my intake and QT log on my website. I was amazed at the variability of the morph, ranging from a Koetari River look-a-like, through high yellow specimens (what I have). I put together an gradient of images I received courtesy of Marcus @ SNDF that shows the range of coloration from this import:
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I picked up a pair of the high yellows. This pair had the largest female. Here's the female:
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And here's the male:
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She is 50 mm SVL - by far the largest frog in my small collection. They are currently in QT in a different room and they are separated from each other. They were treated prophylactically by SNDF, and under Dr. Frye's advice we're continuing the Panacur course and apply an SSD salve to the female's nose rub/bruise. Initial BD/RV swabs were negative, and the first set of fecal samples are out for analysis.


Has anyone else acquired a pair?
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#2
Nice Jim
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#3
Thanks Damien! Someday you'll have a tinc and I'll have a thumb in our respective collections Smile

The first set of fecal results came in negative today. I kind of expected that given the frogs were treated by SNDF. I've been treating the female's nose with silversulfadiazene (SSD) for two days (the end to end process is less than 30 seconds for capture, treat and release, but it's still stressful on me and her). Here are some shots of her nose:
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Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#4
What a change a week can make. The female was struggling in QT. She continued to drop weight and climb the walls of the QT tank. She had plenty of leaf litter and two hides, but she was obviously stressed. I consulted Dr. Frye and we added Metronidizole as an appetite stimulant to her medication regiment while I was treating the nose rub with SSD. Day over day she seemed to decline.

I spoke extensively with Glenn (we actually burned up all my pre-paid wireless minutes :lolSmile and we agreed I should skip the rest of the QT regiment and get her in a real planted viv ASAP. I moved her and the male two days ago and immediately they found a roosting spot up in a cork bark hollow. They are eating well, she is climbing but not slamming her nose into stuff, and they are periodically soaking in their pool. She is noticeably calmer and after two days in the enclosure she is putting on weight.

I spoke with Marcus Friday and he agreed with the move. He provided additional information on the export/import/QT process on their end which was helpful. The frogs spent two weeks at the exporter's facility and they were treated with Baytril and Panacur. They were shipped to FL where they were held for another 3 weeks in QT and they were treated with Baytril and two more rounds of Panacur. I had them in QT for 10 more days, where they went through another round of Panacur, a negative BD and RV swab, and a negative fecal. I was concerned about shorting the QT cycle on my end, but given the exhausting treatment regiment the frogs had been through combined with two big shipping trips I was more concerned about losing the female in QT than holding her in isolation for further testing.

I do have to add that it was a pleasure to work through this with Marcus. He was great answering my questions and providing details on the treatment methods at the exporter, and his supervision of their treatment at the importer. I'll post to his review section, but this example, this thread, shows how important it is to work with someone that actually cares about the animals and is completely open with how they have been handled.

This was a new experience for me. I suspect the combination of stress and dehydration along with their being WC adults was something I had not considered. All my prior experience was with CB froglets, which seem to take QT better than these animals. Anyhow I thought it was important to document the decisions we made (thanks Glenn and Marcus!) about handling them for others that may have these Robertus that may be struggling in QT.

EDIT - adding pics from prior to the move and after:
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Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#5
Nice thread, I'm pulling for you
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#6
Keep up the good work, Jim! Thanks for being so candid about the process. It can really help others out!
Glenn
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#7
Hi Jim,

Dunno if we covered QT when we spoke by phone recently but what you have described -husbandry methods is what I too would recommend. I cannot remember if you went into detail about the size of your QT enclosure, but with bigger animals like Tincs and terribs, and especially being WC, the QT or Temp tanks have to be on the bigger side or they could freak out.

I would use something even larger than a 10 gallon for each frog and have a ton of Pothos (bare stemmed -no roots or dirt) in addition to 2 layers of large magnolia leaves and some bark or cocohuts. A small draped cloth over partial sides / areas of the enclosure would be good too.

Feed heavier than usual. Mist a bit heavier too.

I'm sure you'll have these guys rockin' soon enough.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#8
Thanks guys!

Yeah Phil I think I missed two things. Big enclosure with pothos that is more natural and a water source. Glenn nailed the water source on a call before I moved the frogs into the viv. As soon as I put them in the viv with access to a pool they started alternating between feeding and soaking. They would soak for a few minutes they they go foraging. Then back down in the pool. I would not have thought of a water dish in a QT enclosure but I'll have to start considering that.

My confidence is trending up today. They female is noticeably larger and very at ease. The male is about the size of my female azureus :lol: benefitting from the extra feeding. Overall it was a good day (not to mention I got three Lorenzo tads too, but that is a different thread Smile ).

And I can't thank Glenn enough - you would think these were his frogs :lol:. He's been great with the advice and daily check ins.
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#9
Subscribed!
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#10
Interesting about the water dish! I totally get it - WC animals, stressed and dehydrated.

So many people desire to place frogs in the 190oz round tubs that when you take the lid off, it sounds like a gunshot. I call them heart attack tubs. Point is, a quarantine enclosure should be 10 gallons for most sized frogs and even bigger for tincs or lager -like 15 -20 gallons.

Pothos are SO very important for this practice, I feel. The live plant grows when cut, so no need to root or worry. It's bullet proof and easy to sanitize and then discard when done. The leaves are nice and large for good hides and the plant retains moisture so well, that is also elevates the general humidity level of the tank and maintains it !

Indispensable, IMO.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#11
Even if you don't "need" a water dish in an enclosure(as some suggest), it's always best to have one. Any enclosure.
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile
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#12
Tiny bump..... :-)
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#13
Roadrunner Wrote:Even if you don't "need" a water dish in an enclosure(as some suggest), it's always best to have one. Any enclosure.
Thanks Aaron! Yeah I am not sure why I did not think of it for QT. All my vivs have water sources (false bottom access) but I had not worked that into my QT procedure. :| Now I've had the face smack "duh!" moment and I'll offer water access in QT.

whitethumb Wrote:Tiny bump..... :-)
Haha! I was taking updated photos just for you Damien! She is looking about the same for the past day or two, but I think she is steadily improving. It depends on the angle some times and the position she is in, but her belly is getting deeper - I'm just waiting for her to get wider and fill out.
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I'm hitting my usual hydei summer doldrums where my production drops off in June and July so I have to switch over to mainly melanogaster. I'm ramping up extra cultures for them now.
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#14
It sounds like her body language has had quite an improvement too. Thanks for the update Jim
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#15
Yeah she has settled down and is now out-eating the male. Today was the first day where she was more aggressive than him when feeding. And it showed. I fed them a heavy feeding of melanogaster this morning and she was noticeably larger (to me) today:
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This is a good angle for seeing the change - her belly is filling out:
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A few more angles:
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And the male is still looking great:
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Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#16
I'm hoping that means eggs soon :-) got my fingers crossed
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#17
Thank you for the kind words, Jim! Smile

Both of them look MUCH better. Moving them when you did and letting them have access to water has paid off huge. The larger more permanent viv seems to have really relaxed them d-stressed them.

They seem very comfy now based on their described behaviour. Video time? 8)

Cheers,
Glenn
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#18
Is Shannon still eating like a champ? ;-)
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#19
frogfreak Wrote:Thank you for the kind words, Jim! Smile

Both of them look MUCH better. Moving them when you did and letting them have access to water has paid off huge. The larger more permanent viv seems to have really relaxed them d-stressed them.

They seem very comfy now based on their described behaviour. Video time? 8)

Cheers,
Haha video? Not sure. These two are boring. They are the boldest frogs I own. Out all the time, and they generally don't move around a lot. They pick a spot and seemingly shoot you the bird when you poke your head in the front glass.

whitethumb Wrote:Is Shannon still eating like a champ? ;-)
Bit of an inside joke - my kid named these two Darth Vader and Shannon...yes, she is turning into the beast I thought she would be. Some pics from today:
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And Darth Vader:
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Somehow I think the names should be reversed. It's interesting to see the white outlines on their yellow coloring. I think she's in the clear. Another week or so and I think the belly will be fully rounded out and looking like a true tinc should Smile
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#20
Looking better every day! Smile
Glenn
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