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Hobby Longevity - How long is a long time ?
#1
I've kept Dart Frogs since 2004 and I've seen a ton of fellow hobbyists drop in and drop out in that relatively short amount of time. When IO say out of the hobby...I mean totally out...selling all frogs, vivs ect.

IMO...some time frames for a reference:

1 year + keeping a species or 2 - Very good.

2-3 years - a little uncommon.

4-7 years - somewhat rare.

8-10 years - an advanced level of commitment to be sure.

10 + - very rare. possibly 10-15% of the hobby.


Thoughts ?
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#2
Philsuma Wrote:I've kept Dart Frogs since 2004 and I've seen a ton of fellow hobbyists drop in and drop out in that relatively short amount of time.

IMO...some time frames for a reference:

1 year + keeping a species or 2 - Very good.

2-3 years - a little uncommon.

4-7 years - somewhat rare.

8-10 years - an advanced level of commitment to be sure.

10 + - very rare. possibly 10-15% of the hobby.


If your measurements are accurate,then its saddening,but what you have said Phil would not surprise me,our society seems geared towards little effort big return,one CANNOT do that with darts,one has to graft.

Do i doubt you are wrong or painting a poor picture of the hobby ,no, i watched people come into and leave whilst i was trying to bang the theory into my thick old skull.

As above its a crying shame,because i suspect you are right,and these little frogs give so much back,but one has to work for that,and that is too much for most, to quote Glen there is no such thing as a night when i do not set up that culture with this darty thing,and that is why folks don't stay,most want something for not much which is not really an option with these particular frogs.

Stu


Thoughts ?[/quote]
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#3
Stu....no need to despair. Celebrate the people that have been in the hobby a long time. Revere and befriend them.

No need to give up when confronted by sobering news or statistics. Find a way to carry on. Work harder and stronger.

I, myself, can actually fit into the starting over category, as my entire collection is gone. As hard core as my hobby involvement was, "real life" came along as it always does and forced my disconnect...BUT...I'll be back, stronger than ever at some point and in the meantime, I'll do whatever it is that I can thru this forum. I'll answer any and all questions, like - " how to deal with mites " for the fifteenth time, If I have too.

NEVER give up.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#4
Phil, do you mean fully out of the hobby i.e. all frogs gone etc? when you mention these time frames? That is what I think I'm gathering, as opposed to leaving forums etc.

I am surprised! If you had only one frog (properly cared for) that means most are not even lasting through the lifespan of one frog! How can one put so much effort into getting started and learning all that is needed, and be out that quick!
Lisa
In central NY

R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' 2.3.0
R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' Froglets 8 and counting.
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#5
yes...I mean fully out of the hobby. Frogs absolutely "out-live" their owners. Literally. I've had frogs willed to me.

Here's my opinion....there are more frogs available than hobbyists to keep them. Hard to justify large imports of WC stuff, huh ?
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#6
Philsuma Wrote:Stu....no need to despair. Celebrate the people that have been in the hobby a long time. Revere and befriend them.

No need to give up when confronted by sobering news or statistics. Find a way to carry on. Work harder and stronger.

I, myself, can actually fit into the starting over category, as my entire collection is gone.As hard core as my hobby involvement was "real life" came along as it always does and forced my disconnect...BUT...I'll be back, stronger than ever at some point and in the mean time, I'll do whatever it is that I can thru this forum. I'll answer any and all question - on " how to deal with mites " for the fifteen time, If I have too.

NEVER give up.
ha i'm not giving up mate,but it is frustrating to me that a bit of graft puts people off this,to see frogs go back on the market not long after being bought,is saddening.does that in anyway affect our outlook towards this no chance
Stu
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#7
Well since the threads here I figure I will announce it. I saw Angry Gary is out as well but due to a mess of things Im leaving the dart frog hobby, I hope to keep my plants and offer them to hobbyists in need as well as maybe building custom vivs for the south east but Im finished with frogs, bugs and the mess and drama it brings. Good luck to all. I started collecting darts in 1999 and never once took a break even passing on vacations and such in order to take care of my herps. When I was fighting in Asia my wife and kids managed it all and would have their hands full as well. Ive made many friends I do not plan to cut ties with but my poison beauties name as well as licenced herp breeding biz Ive had since the mid 90's Im leaving behind as well as the paypal, ebay and email accounts. Thanks to all.

Michael
Everyday I meet someone I dislike, are you today's pick? If you dislike me it's because somethings wrong with you!

Don't Be A Hybridiot!
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#8
Michael Lawrence Wrote:Well since the threads here I figure I will announce it. I saw Angry Gary is out as well but due to a mess of things I'm leaving the dart frog hobby, I hope to keep my plants and offer them to hobbyists in need as well as maybe building custom vivs for the south east but I'm finished with frogs, bugs and the mess and drama it brings. Good luck to all. I started collecting darts in 1999 and never once took a break even passing on vacations and such in order to take care of my herps. When I was fighting in Asia my wife and kids managed it all and would have their hands full as well. Ive made many friends I do not plan to cut ties with but my poison beauties name as well as licenced herp breeding biz Ive had since the mid 90's I'm leaving behind as well as the paypal, ebay and email accounts. Thanks to all.

Michael
This is very sad for me Micheal, our acquaintance has been too brief, but i thank you for the time and wisdom you have given me/us. I wish you well in all you do
regards
Stu
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#9
You'll be back Michael....I'll be back......we'll be back.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#10
It bums me out to know that you guys are frogless right now. I hope you're both back!

Back to the OP, unfortunately, pets are a novelty to most, especially pets that require the work that dart frogs do. I would imagine it to be the same in the Reptile, Reefing and many other hobbies. Some people just have a short attention span. They get a pet, and in no time are bored with it...
Glenn
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#11
Wow, real bummer w so many big names downsizing or just leaving. The hard part w any hobby is finding balance w life and what you want out of the hobby. Dart frogs are time consuming, so I can see why people need a break if they have large collections or time dedicated. Heck, I almost got back into frogs many times in the past decade, but life got in the way so I understand. I am on round 2 and hope I can enjoy the hobby for many years to come.

On the opposite spectrum - per this thread

I was reading some posts in the intro forum and I'd say it felt like 80% or more of the names no longer post - that might be because Dart Den was neglected prior to Phil taking back over, but I have noticed similar scenario on DB also... ie.. folks starting in late 2010 and now no longer posting.

-Scott
Scott - North Dallas
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#12
I think I've had darts now since '08 (?). Hard to remember, but, I've noticed alot how people get into it, get excited, and then disappear. Time is my biggest struggle. Between work and the kids, I have very little time to do much of anything. Even building tanks, I do here at work during lunch. I do think there are way more people that have gotten out of frogs than are currently in the hobby. My favorite part of frogging is just sitting in my living room and listening to all the different calls.
Derek
1.5 kids and a bunch of frogs
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#13
Had a local guy who jumped into the hobby kinda big, just say "game over".....his total "frog time"

about 4 months.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#14
Philsuma Wrote:Had a local guy would jumped into the hobby kinda big, just say "game over".....his total "frog time"

about 4 months.

Who's that Phil?
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#15
Prob the dude that bought his super beautiful heard of P. Vittatus
Scott - North Dallas
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#16
The vitattus guy is yet another 4-5 month-er...
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#17
I noticed several people who have been around for a little while announced they're leaving recently as well as some people that have been around for years including Michael Lawrence (Poison Beauties), Charles Almazan (just told me this weekend), D3monic (Michael) to name a few. As anyone else who has been doing this for a while this seems to be part of the hobby, people build up collections and then sell them for any number of reason but there does seem to be a lot lately.
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#18
You know I am VERY new to the hobby (less then 1 year) but I have noticed some interesting things.

One is the amount of flack that is often given to new hobbyists. I'm not sure if this is a sensitivity on our part as new hobbyists, or a frustration on the part of older hobbyists. HOWEVER the members of this site tend to be FAR less guilty of this and are quite patient and kind to the new guys... Thanks Big Grin

This leads me to my next point, new guys like my self tend to argue with seasoned Froggers. Not sure the exact reasoning for this. Probably becuase there is a lot of miss information out there regarding the frogs. I believe some of this bad info is due to the fact that there are so many breeders that are not on the boards, selling poor quality frogs and giving out poor info. This poor info includes how 'easy' Dart Frogs are to take care of, which isn't as true as they like us newbies to believe.

Normally sellers like this who are on the boards are quickly discovered for who they are and disappear or show up under new names. (This is besides the point though)

This exact issue led me to believe I knew what I was doing, and in turn, argue with a local expert over there proper care. I learned from my mistakes, but not at the cost of valuable local resource, one that I may never be able to repair.

So back to the issue: I think we loose a lot of new froggers quickly because some may feel they are in over their heads and no one really wants to help them (so they feel). They are missinfomred, but confident in incorect information and tend to be stubborn. They get hostile, or demanding, and place the blame on the seasoned guys. Again, I am 100% guilty of this in a few past issues.

The season guys say, 'hey I dont want or need any of this' and they bail. Why help if those asking are rejecting your answers, or not even considering your experience???

I think most of us would agree that a very important part of the hobby for us is sharing it with others and interacting with people with the same interests. When the fighting starts the desire to stay in the hobby stops.

Again, I am new, and these are my very limited observations. I am also guilty of going on the offense or defense several times, but I hope to continue to learn and become one of those 10 year+ guys.

Thanks for all you do to keep the hobby alive folks!
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#19
Old timers have come and gone and will continue to do so. For all sorts of reasons which will also continue.
What is considered a long time?
Well, if you've been in the hobby for what most consider a long time typing and blogging and reading about frogs , but have never had your own personal 'successful' dart frog breeding project , your time in the hobby may be long, but your time keeping frogs is short.
If you've been in the hobby a long time and have only turned frogs over or kept them long enough for them to lose their new frog smell, then your breeding project time is short, and your breeding plans short sighted.
Time is relevant . It's not the time in grade, rather what you do with that time.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#20
I've had frogs just over 2 years, and have no plans to get rid of them. I only planned to have 5 viv's from the start. Still waiting to get my Vanzo's, but med bills are pushing that back again. Not very active in the forums anymore however.
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