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How do you raise your froglets,with emphasis on accomodation
#1
Guys,could you please give us all the info you can on how you raise your froglets i need to do some serious thinking on designs. Factors like, sizes(inches please...perfered to gallons) how many per tank. it would be great to have lots of photos.I am particularly interested in space saving devices: that absolutly do not comprimise the wellfare of froglets by overcrowding.
I would like your thoughts on lighting is it needed/uvb?
Your thoughts on mixing slightly different ages.
I am after detail if possible please.These thoughts really want to be directed towards the accomodation,i don't have concearns over food really,i would hope we have that properly covered...andsome.
I know we will have a few more thumbnails and definitly some tanks of oophaga,but many of our tanks will contain larger darts,i am slightly overwelmed by what has happened so far this year with only 2 tanks breeding,although disasters such as sls could definitly strike, despite our best endevourors.But alarm bells are starting to ring Its our first season with darts,we now have around 50 tads in the water,our tad gizmo is already inadequate, and we are only really scratching the surface.
Guys i /we are long term stockmen in other fields,i am an utter novice with darts but i have seen what happens with our obsessive kind of disciplin elsewhere.Heaven forbid this sounds arrogant,its so not that i just want to be ready ...just in case.Realistically i don't see us running with our room full (18/24 tanks for some time,even years,we have taken anextremely slow approach to this whole dart thing,with pretty meticulous planning for the room and its inhabitants.Not wishing for a battery farm we have really tried to give each species a good space,we could have many more tanks than we have designed for the space,the wellfare/quality of life of our charges is paramount.But i am starting to realise that we really need deep thought given to young stock and to what we will doone day in the future if this breeding malarky should by chance continue.
Thanks as always
Stu
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#2
Hi Stu,

The UVB thing is not done over here. A good, fresh and varied dusting regime is what I recommend. Raphasy products contain better calcium than the crushed oyster shells used in the Reptical product (which is still "ok"t use and MUCH better than nothing, I may add)

Housing is done in large plastic totes / rubbermade bins with CARE as to not too many froglets and definitely VERY similar sizes.

Some quick thoughts...I'll add more later.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#3
Philsuma Wrote:Hi Stu,

The UVB thing is not done over here. A good, fresh and varied dusting regime is what I recommend. Raphasy products contain better calcium than the crushed oyster shells used in the Reptical product (which is still "ok"t use and MUCH better than nothing, I may add)

Housing is done in large plastic totes / rubbermade bins with CARE as to not too many froglets and definitely VERY similar sizes.

Some quick thoughts...I'll add more later.
cool start buddy thankyou,if you can find me a pic that would be so cool,we have repashy vits food well in hand i feel,its the housing i really need to hammer out mate,
thanks Phil...when you have time,more would be fab
regards
Stu
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#4
Wow. I didn't even notice this. I just posted a similar topic. If I get any replies, I'll let you know any info I receive.

Mark
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#5
I agree that most house them in large plastic totes, but I don't. I use separate 5 gallon tanks and put 5 froglets max per tank. It allows me to keep a better eye on them and to add frogs of a similar age. Most times the same clutch.
Glenn
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#6
Markw Wrote:Wow. I didn't even notice this. I just posted a similar topic. If I get any replies, I'll let you know any info I receive.

Mark
cheers mark we gotta share this stuff
take care mate
Stu
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#7
frogfreak Wrote:I agree that most house them in large plastic totes, but I don't. I use separate 5 gallon tanks and put 5 froglets max per tank. It allows me to keep a better eye on them and to add frogs of a similar age. Most times the same clutch.
Glen how are ya mate?
Buddy would you show me some pics please? I might have to desing our last rack with this in mind ,or maybe go somewhere else completely,not sure yet need as much info as possible. Erm mate what does 5 gallon mean in feet and inches,i think your measurements are the same as ours :oops:
thanks for the reply buddy
Stu
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#8
Hey Stu,

Here you go. Smile

They fit nice on a rack.
[Image: dscf0101j.jpg]

Tilted cups.
[Image: dscf0102c.jpg]

I made a lid and it's really easy to feed. I usually spray the sides of the glass before feeding. It keeps most of the flies in.
[Image: dscf0104li.jpg]

These are 40 x 21 x 25cm high.

Best
Glenn
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#9
Wow very cool we aprove!!!!!!
so no plants Glen? and no lighting either?
Glen really very greatful that you took the time to do that ,and even popped me up some of them strange european measurements too,your a bloody star mate, persumably you also thake the view that if tad can't scale the sides of the cup then its not viable? I think one we might need lights for them spotty guys but on seeing this without lighting you have really got me old brain rattling mate,we are designing new vivs/rack as we speak,still with our ent design but front as normal and top vent at the back,we could fit a few into a small space this way,great catylist mate,i better not say too much more cause someone will nick me ideas again :lol:
Glen i've said it before you have awonderful set up mate,and some very very cool ideas on this stuff, very greatful you posted this,truely mate....just had our best few days of hatching,really good bang bang out hatches,especially on auratus, i so needed the imput you have just given me
regards
Stu
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#10
Hey Stu, Thanks and your welcome!

We don't use any plants. The froglets are in these small tanks for 3 months, so the waste buildup isn't that bad. We use a whole springtail culture per tank, so we don't have to feed flies for the first week. We culture the springs in FF culturing cups. They look after a lot of the waste too. After the cups are removed another handful of leaf litter is added. It gives the frogs plenty of hides. They stay mostly hidden for the first few weeks unless eating. We don't go poking around for them at all. After that they start to bold up some. We notice a big difference on how bold they are between 2-3 months. By 2 months they know when the tank sides are sprayed, it's feeding time! Big Grin We don't use any lighting at all. The ambient lighting is enough to get a head count and we believe that lighting would just spook them and drive them into the leaf litter. If we see a tad that has SLS we usually separate them into a different enclosure, take out more water and put it on more of a tilt, but we haven't had any SLS this year.

Canada is metric too, eh! :lol:

Cheers Guys!
Glenn
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#11
frogfreak Wrote:Hey Stu, Thanks and your welcome!

We don't use any plants. The froglets are in these small tanks for 3 months, so the waste buildup isn't that bad. We use a whole springtail culture per tank, so we don't have to feed flies for the first week. We culture the springs in FF culturing cups. They look after a lot of the waste too. After the cups are removed another handful of leaf litter is added. It gives the frogs plenty of hides. They stay mostly hidden for the first few weeks unless eating. We don't go poking around for them at all. After that they start to bold up some. We notice a big difference on how bold they are between 2-3 months. By 2 months they know when the tank sides are sprayed, it's feeding time! Big Grin We don't use any lighting at all. The ambient lighting is enough to get a head count and we believe that lighting would just spook them and drive them into the leaf litter. If we see a tad that has SLS we usually separate them into a different enclosure, take out more water and put it on more of a tilt, but we haven't had any SLS this year.

Canada is metric too, eh! :lol:

Cheers Guys!
wow didn't know about Canada being metric...DOH.
ok mate,more questions are those you springtails up top? are you culturing on leca or something similar?
I know you have tincs what other darts have you had success with utilising this method?
Ha you have me buzzing on this glen
thanks again kiddo
regards
Stu
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#12
Those are springs up top and I do culture some on Leca. Others on coco coir chunks. The ones I do on coir chunks are the ones that get added to these tanks. We're used these grow out for Leucs, Auratus and Tincs, Stu, I forgot to mention that we clean the tanks between use, so we don't get a bunch of waste buildup. We toss the leaves and substrate and start all over again.

I'm curious as to what you guys come up with. You're a thinker and a handy kinda guy!

Best
Glenn
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#13
Nice rack system Glenn. Those tanks look like they make for great grow-outs and glass certainly works fine as well.

I usually try for most all things to be glass, but someone I got hooked on those plastic KIS containers. Stackable and unbreakable and easier to clean.

I keep my grow-outs - sphagnum and LL and pothos type plants only. No microfuana needed.

Just how I do....
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#14
Thanks Phil!

And everyone does things different. That's one thing I love about this hobby. You can look a a 100 different setups and go with what works for you. That's why I'm looking forward to what Stu comes up with. Look at the tad system he came up with. Smile

I'm a huge glass fan too, but I use Kis containers for my tads bins full of cups. They work really well for me.
Glenn
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#15
frogfreak Wrote:Those are springs up top and I do culture some on Leca. Others on coco coir chunks. The ones I do on coir chunks are the ones that get added to these tanks. We're used these grow out for Leucs, Auratus and Tincs, Stu, I forgot to mention that we clean the tanks between use, so we don't get a bunch of waste buildup. We toss the leaves and substrate and start all over again.

I'm curious as to what you guys come up with. You're a thinker and a handy kinda guy!

Best
Thanks again mate,glen i know i'm a damn pain in the preverbial,can you show me a pic of the coir chunks...please :oops: ,i might try orchid bark as an alternative and i'm also curious as to the species of springtail your culturing in this way. Yeah i did think you did a batch/tank and then clean out...start afresh,total logic we concur.The seeds of the idea are inplace mate,based around your system,but with some tweaks because i want front opening doors,a design based on that ent tank but cobbled together for this,and slightly oversize for our type racking,so i can get them out easy,but still be tight/cool/ good to look at.... BUT be workable,CAN'T BE DOING WITH BAD DESIGN...its gotta work!!! No reason for this not to be applicable to Ranitomaya is there mate?
As too the thinker,well Glen i am driving myself nuts at presant pontificating on 2 vivs and whom will inhabit and how we can do best for them,then i have one 2' cube to sort,and then i can get cracking on this,i need to be rattling now mate,or winter is going to mess with us bigstyle,really appreciate you kindness and help on this Glen, :lol: bet i'm out there with AGAIN in subzero cutting ali ,hey ho
bring it on huh
Stu
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#16
I don't have the room for a kick butt rack setup like Glenn's, so I'm interested in other folks' experience with smaller scale containers. If I go the plastic shoebox route I don't mind stacking them and raising froglets in isolation so I can monitor them more closely during feedings, but is there a reason to consider raising them in a small group? I currently isolate the tadpoles in deli cups.
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#17
don't go small - SHOEbox

go a bit bigger - SWEATERbox

Groups are fine....just feed heavy and lots of leaf litter...a la..Casper's pics.
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https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#18
Jim-I'm a newb, so take that into account, but, the reason I have raised my 3 auratus froglets together, and my 4 azureus froglets together, is I have read that as breeding adults, they can be aggressive in groups, and you may possibly need to separate them and keep them in groups of 1:1. But if they grow up together, they may actually get along as a group without the aggressive behavior. Since I bought these to keep and hopefully one day breed, I want them to get along! They are all 7 juveniles now, and no signs of aggression yet. That's why I have chosen to raise mine in groups instead of individually. They were all, at most, 1/2 inch when I bought them, and the auratus are now over an inch, the azureus close to an inch each. The 3 auratus are in a 20 long, the azureus in a 10 gallon. I will be moving the azureus to their permanent viv soon, an 18x18x24 zoomed.
P. Terribilis orange, R. Imitator Cainarachi Valley, D. Leucomelas, D. Auratus, D. Azureus, P. vittatus, D. cobalts, D.Oyapok, Bombina Orientalis
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#19
and if you notice one little froglet...smaller than the rest and growing at a much slower rate, pull it and place it in it's own tank.

Unless, that is, you wanna go for 'survival of the fittest' in which case, no one should blame ya. It's natural.
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https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#20
Reading this post is really helped give me different ideas as I have two different species right now about to come oow. I have a trivittataus and tink tads right now. I have heard the trivs need a little more space so I guess I'll probably go with the 5 gallon idea just a little worried about them being able to feed straight out of the water in such a large tank. For such a large frog it's crazy that they come out about half the size of the tinc froglets. Just have to go really heavy on the springtails I suppose
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