"Justice" with Viv size...

[Flemish]

Greetings all.

- And let me start by saying thanks to all for the welcome I have recieved on this board, and a thanks to Phil for making it possible. Great job, and I really mean this!
(Insert flower here!)

The very first time I saw a dart, it must have been some 20 years ago. It was held in a very small "box", not worthy of being called a enclosure. And I felt most sorry for it... It was a Azur, looking like a precious stone. (!)

- Those who know me now, knows the size I am heading for...
My entrance to this hobby was making a sort of a indoor green house, second to put frogs in there as "icing on the cake".

Recently I recieved a PM saying that he was most impressed by the way we, the Europeans seemed to "go big, or go home"!
- I actually believe reason is for the plants, not trying to be better than anyone... Or, I don´t that is!! :!:

In another PM I was adviced to either choose a smaller viv, or some bigger frogs!
- But seriously...

Now don´t get me wrong, I am not trying to be better than anyone.
- But why are they kept in size view, as people do most... Average size?

Please have in mind that I am new to this, having 25 years experience aquarium vice... And working with marine biology, you can not go too big!!

What are thoughts with decision and recomandations of size viv??
- They will make use of it all, no matter how big they are... I don´t get it!

I hope to have a good debate on size. With thoughts, ideas and reason behind recomandations!

Thank you all one more time!

[Flemish]

- Oh, but please? :|

24 Hrs, and not even a single reply. It can not be true... :!: :?:

[DKOOISTRA]

I think that part of it may be that we want "more". Most that stay in the hobby for any amount of time want more than one vivarium, more than one type of frog...culturally, we on this side of the pond are never happy with what we have, we always want more. Smaller tanks give us more space for more tanks...
just a thought
derek

[DKOOISTRA]

But I will add, Ive been debating on downsizing to one lately, just one really large tank. Its been difficult for me to keep up with what i have lately...
derek

[fieldsmith]

I agree with Derek...having lots of large vivs is ideal, but often not feasible. I think most responsible keepers try to provide as much room as possible for their frogs. Yes there are those that keep frogs in smaller vivs...but I wouldn't say this is the norm. The huge display vivs that seem to be popular overseas are always stunning to view, but would be hard to pull off with more than one or two species/morphs (i.e. having room for more than one or two large tanks). Having a number of smaller vivs lets one collect (and breed) many more frogs.

[Flemish]

But we, the Scandinavians with the British helped to build America... We can not be that different?? :lol:
Pardon... The above sarcastic remark is me realizing that maybe my first post could lead to debate on cultural differences more than to the attention to the frogs.
___________
- Not what I wanted, so I have boiled my first post down a bit:

- But why are they kept in size view, as people do most... Average size?
Who made decisioun of required minimum for a dart? (If being a responsible frog keeper.)

What are thoughts with decision and recomandations of size viv??
How much do they roam arround in nature?
- They will make use of the space, no matter how big the viv´s are... I don´t get it!

I hope to have a good debate on size. With thoughts, ideas and reason behind recomandations!

Thank you all one more time!

[Philsuma]

I'll take a crack at answering.

The Dutch and Germans pioneered exotic animal keeping - especially Herpitiles. I think they go back to the 1920's for serious glass enclosure keeping and in homes. I have to brush up on my Herp-History ! In the U.S, the late 1970's is considered to be very old for animal keeping in homes. All of this is just my opinion and guesses BTW.

The average Dart Frog Vivarium in the U.S is most likely around 20 U.S Gallon size. There are PLENTY of people that stuff frogs into 10 Gallon aquariums...still...and we all know that is for their own corner-cutting and is not best practice.

The more responsible hobbyists attempt to keep pairs or trios in 30-40 Gallon size enclosures. But as you say, and all things being equal - bigger IS better.

Having observed pumilio in situ, I can tell you that the population density is much thicker than most people think, but that is still no excuse for using 10 or 20 gallon sizes.

does that help address your questions....slightly..lol

[Flemish]

Slightly! :!: :lol:

- Thank you Phil!

I was warned that I soon might want some more tanks... So, figured. I´d better get it right! (!)
- And I do have a empty wall...

Quote:

"I can tell you that the population density is much thicker than most people think, but that is still no excuse for using 10 or 20 gallon sizes."

End.

- Aye, yes... You are absolutely right!!