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Morph - Hybrid Difference ?
#1
I am a true newbie, I have an empty 30gal aquarium and want to do something diferrent with it. I'm still researching EVERYTHING before I jump in. I have seen a lot of pictures of different PDFs, some are morphs, some are not, but I have not found a definition of what a morph is. Is it a hybrid? Is it a recognized sub-species? Are they "good" or "bad"?
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#2
A morph is a certain color variation. Not a hybrid.
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#3
There are a few differnt definitions and these definitions change between different kinds of animals (the definition would be diffrent for ball pythons than it would be poison dart frogs). I think a good definition for a poison dart frog morph would be a specific species from a specific local. Designer frogs (albino and the like) will only increase in the hobby and there will be much debate about whether the albinos will be considered another morph or not.
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#4
Never seen an albino...
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#5
Well, there is some debate on what to call these guys (I guess they are technically not albinos) but here are some pics: http://images.google.com/images?q=albin ... a=N&tab=wi

These are mainly inferalanis, but there is also some albino leucs (I'm not sure they are in the states). There is a pic of one on kingsnake I believe. I want to say there are albino vents too, but I may have just eaten too much turkey this weekend.
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#6
Lol, who hasn't??? I actually skipped the turkey, and went straight for the pumpkin pie...bad mistake...
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#7
I've actually seen the "albino" inferalanis in person. Cool looking frogs. A lot of people are scared about these guys "ruining" the hobby. We'll see.

Well, back to eating cold turkey and stuffing!
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#8
Just a side note on albinos or any selective breeding for that matter.
Albinos due occur in the wild. There are supposedly "herds" of them (vents I believe) in nature. This is obviously not a common occurence. It is my feeling that there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with or "evil" about albinos, VERY blue this, whatever. What I do not like to see is a captive population of albinos , and nothing but albinos, in a single tank , I.E. , selective breeding. Albinos occur in nature at a rate of ??? Keep one in with "normal" pigmented Darts and I am OK with it, may have happened that way in nature. Hold back your most or least of any trait and you are selective breeding.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#9
Is selective breeding considered bad by many people? Say you have an azureus that is very very deep blue...I mean bluer than the rest. You breed it with another very blue one. How can that be bad to want a very blue frog?
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#10
Not sure if it is considered bad or not by most of the hobby. I consider it bad (in general, there are a few exceptions, but not many) for the simple reason that by selectively breeding you run a very good risk of removing natural traits.
There are some froggers who believe that pumilio will select mates by by coloration. I think it may be more along the lines of size, strength, health, sound, something like that. When you consider how easily hybrids can be produced I doubt that an "ugly" pumilio will go dateless.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#11
As far as I know, there are no selective breeding of albinos. The inferalanis are F1 and are not old enough to breed...yet. But, how would creating an albino line be that much different then some of the line breeding we see with dart frogs?

Whatcha think of sky blue azuerus? Or fine spot Leucs? I see those as much different than albinos.
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#12
There are froggers selectively breeding albino Darts.
If the fine spots, blue this's, black thats , bigger these, whatever , occurred in nature, and you know this to be true (site locals are great) then I am OK with it.
If they are being produced by holding back the most or least of a certain trait I am against it.
I don't necessarily think it is a sin or anything like that , it is just against my goals , in most cases.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#13
Once you bring an animal into captivity you are "selectively" breeding it intentionally or unintentionally. What I mean by this is that it is impossible to keep a captive bred animal genetically similar to a wild animal. In captivity you are selecting for animals that breed, grow and survive well in their captive environment which is very different from a wild environment. When you select a phenotypic trait like color or albinism, and breed like to like animals you are only minimally affecting their genetics compared to all the other changes that have already occurred through "domestication". We keep theses animals because we enjoy their appearance and behavior. When you attend a show you select the "best" looking frog (whatever that critereia may be; lots of blue, no blue blah blah blah ) and this is fine as long as it falls within the natural variation of the particular morph in my opinion. thanks George
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#14
I agree completely with George.
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#15
One of the reasons we keep these frogs is to have a good representation of what the Dart's actually look like in nature.
Selective breeding of traits not "normally" found in nature is by definition unnatural.
F2, F3, ect. frogs produced from line breeding look very much like their parents, in most cases.
Again, I don't think of it as a sin like hybrids and I know that a certain amount is neccessary in the hobby.
I also agree with most of George's input.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#16
You think hybrids are a sin? Hybrids must ocur in nature sometimes, or else how would we have all of these different morphs?
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#17
Do a search on Hybrids. There are tons of posts.
Also look up genetic drift.
Frognet would give the most in depth info.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#18
hi One thing you need to keep in mind is that just because something happens in captivity does not mean it occurs in the wild. I've seen it posted quite a bit that because x morph breeds with y morph it must happen in nature; you make a huge number of assumptions when you do this that are very hard to substantiate. For example in some populations of animals different color morphs (but the same species) will not interbreed and will only select similar individuals as long as they have a choice. In contrast when these same animals are placed in captivity many morphs, lines and even species will freely interbreed when they only have a few animals of the opposite sex to choose from. This does not mean this is natural behavior.
This is why its up to us to keep lines pure and not mix lines or species. George
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#19
No, I was asking if you thought hyrbidizing was a sin.
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#20
"No, I was asking if you thought hyrbidizing was a sin."

Brock,
If that question is directed at me, the answer is yes.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Like Reply




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