My first vivarium build is complete!

[dynekevin]

Here is a few pictures! Let me know what you guys think!


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii211...G_0358.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii211...G_0359.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii211...G_0360.jpg

[eos]

Here is a few pictures! Let me know what you guys think!

Nice work... It has nice depth to it. What's going in there?

[Philsuma]

That's an interesting center feature...I like it a lot.

[dynekevin]

Hey guys, im thinking two leucs are going to be going in there. I added about 3 more plants too. Ill post an updated better picture tomorrow. Glad you guys like it.

[Cindy Dicken]

Nice tank!
The pothos will probably get out of hand fairly quickly,
but it's easy enough to trim.
I think a couple of leucs would enjoy the tank.
I don't remember if you said or not, what will you be using for lighting?

Any chance we can get a better picture of the Nova (SS?) behind it???

[dynekevin]

Nice tank!
The pothos will probably get out of hand fairly quickly,
but it's easy enough to trim.
I think a couple of leucs would enjoy the tank.
I don't remember if you said or not, what will you be using for lighting?

Any chance we can get a better picture of the Nova (SS?) behind it???

Hahha here we gooo

[Cindy Dicken]

Nice, thanks for the shot of the Nova

Tank is looking good too!
Do yourself a favor and ditch the analog gauge you have stuck to the side of the tank.
I'm guessing that is your thermometer.
Those are unbelievably inaccurate. Go with a digital gauge.

[dynekevin]

are they really? ugh it is my first tank.. i appreciate the advice. Would the humidity one be okay? I really did not want to run wires out of the tank but i guess i will have to then. For lighting i think i will get the zoomed fixture. Then pop in a couple grow bulbs for the plants. Any recommendations?

[Philsuma]

What's your false bottom look like? I see you have taken away a lot of leaf litter and placed a small water dish there.

That size and configuration enclosure is usually used for thumbnails and pumilio that both are a bit more "arboreal" than Leucs.

Like Cindy said...ditch those crappy dials. They are so "bad" that may even provide a false reading or otherwise cause the owner to seriously misread the actual humidity (too low for example).

It's still a good looking build and would be ok for 1.1 leucs or even 2.1

[dynekevin]

hahah i just noticed i do not have one picture with the false bottom. The false bottom is composed of 1.5inchs of clay aggregate pellets. Then a layer of weed blocker. Then followed with ABG mix with some moss on top. Then the leaf litter.

PS i have only temp. removed some leaf litter. I was fighting to add more plants and rearranging to something i like better. Still up in the air about species. I am torn between the R. Imitator "Varadero" and the leucs. It is my first dart frog. Although, i have been doing research for months. I dont know. LOL

[Cindy Dicken]

I wouldn't trust either of those, temp or humidity, gauges. You can take 5 of those and line them up and all 5 will give you different readings hock:

You can find a good thermometer/hygrometer combo gauge at some of the big box stores, like Home Depot, Lowes, or even Target and Wal-Mart. Some of the gauges will have a remote probe that you can place in the tank and have the actual unit setting next to the tank. Keep in mind though, the remote probe is only the temp sensor. The hygrometer is built into the unit itself, so to get a humidity reading you will need to place the entire unit in the tank. Once the tank gets established, you really won't need to measure the humidity, you can pretty much look at the tank and see that the humidity is good to go. Once you get your top section covered, and the tank reaches a saturation point you will see condensation in the tank, you're good to go. Also, the hygrometer portion of the unit is not designed to be at 80-100% humidity constantly, it will cause the unit to fail. So just set the unit in the tank for 10-15 minutes to get a reading then take the unit out.

As for your temps, you need to get the tank located where it is going to stay. Be sure to not place it close to any windows that might allow direct sunlight to hit it, now or any other time of the year. You will want to check the tank temps at different times of the day after the lights have been on for a while, and the temp in your home fluctuates to get an idea of the temp range.

[dynekevin]

thanks cindy, i will be throwing those crap gauges out then! As for a spot for the tank i have a corner in my basement specifically for it. I did cover the top and there is condensation on the sides of the glass. I just used a piece of acrylic on top of the mesh covering about 90% of the top. Sadly its already starting to warp (3days later) but i can deal with that. I will be getting the lighting fixture tomorrow and moving it to its permanent home in the basement where i can start to monitor all the climate changes. So could i just use a temperature gun to check the temp?

[Cindy Dicken]

If you have a temp gun, sure, use it.
I doubt you will have a problem on the high side if your putting the tank in your basement. Winter might be a different story, might be a little too cool, time will tell.

I think you can get still get a piece of glass cut at the big box home improvement stores. Glass will be a much better option for covering your top. The glass they have is thin, very thin, but it is only going to sit on top of the tank so it should be ok. You can take a piece of emory cloth and knock the sharp edge off where the glass was cut so you don't sever a finger. The acrylic will continue to warp, and when you get your light on the tank it will warp some more.

[dynekevin]

Alright, ill go pick up a piece of glass sometime next week then. As for today i am getting the lighting taken care of =)

So what is your guys opinions? Should i go with the leucs or look into the imitators considering my setup?

Im slightly worried a beginner should not start with the thumbnails. I personally think i could handle it but i fully do not understand why they are so much more harder. Other than speed and size... maybe not as tollerant to temp/humidity changes? Possibly harder to breed? Is that pretty much the only differences?

thanks for all the info guys!

[Cindy Dicken]

You need to go with what appeals to you.

The plus for the leucs would be the male have a very pretty call, they are highly visable, and will get along regardless of the sex ratio. In that size tank, I don't think you want to try to put more than a couple in there.
The imitators, you could go 3, maybe even 4 in that size tank.
The main concern with starting out with imitators will be the food. They are a very small frog (hence the label thumbnail), so if something was to happen and your fruit flys crashed, you probably could not find small enough crickets (or other food) to feed them until you were able to get fruit flys. The other concern would be they are very small and very quick. You can easily spot the yellow leuc when you open the tank door, but it is a little more difficult to see the tiny green imitator sitting patiently, waiting for the door to open to make it's great escape.

[Philsuma]

Here's what I tell ALL people in your situation. Find someone local. Someone you have some good communication with and someone that maybe has invited you over to see their frogs or maybe they soon will. Someone that has some excellent CB frogs that they will not only fully and highly recommend, but will also give you great advice to get you started and even future support for the frogs that they transfer to you.

It's actually JUST as important - WHO you get frogs from as to What species of frog...does all the above make sense ?

[dynekevin]

Cindy that is my greatest concern! The one going for the great escape! Being that my tank is located in my basement it could be entirely troublesome to find a frog the size of a thumbnail that leaped out of the tank. Plus what if i do not notice it right away (considering i may not see them all everytime i enter the tank to feed / change water / and trim plants).

My line of thought is getting a proven pair of leucs and test the water with this enclosure. Learn to culture and maintain a constant food source. Basically getting more comfortable with the care of these wonderful frogs. Maybe after a few months-year i could build a second enclosure for the leucs (more ground space {possibly 40gal breeder}). Then move onto a tougher species as the imitators. I would really like to get my hands on a pair of cobalts as well... I think sticking with more beginner species in the start would be the best route.

Philsuma as for meeting a local breeder i think it would be a great idea. Although, i am slightly skeptical about meeting someone from online. Not that i cannot handle myself but it would be a first time for me lol! I think meeting someone at the reptile expo and then venturing to see their frog rooms may be a better route for me. Kind of build a bond with the person before venturing into their home. Is that understandable? As for everything you said i totally understand and can see all your angles.

On the bright side, there is very few speices of dart frog that i am not interested in! So which ever frog i do end up going with i am positive i will love it. I just want to let you guys know that i really appreciate you taking the time to bounce these ideas off of me and help me into this wonderful hobby. Please continue shoving as much info/ideas towards me because i would really like to get a excellent grasp of this hobby. Then hopefully be totally prepared when ever the day may come that i get frogs.

Thanks so much and please continue bouncing ideas! I love it!

[Cindy Dicken]

I really think a couple of leucs will be your best option, to get started with.
You can cut your teeth (so to speak) on the leucs and get a feel for the dart frogs
in general, as well as culturing the fruit flies, and all of the other stuff that goes along with
it. Once you get the hang of it, your next tank can be the imitators.
Phil has a very good point about finding some one close that we can get you with, so you can see their set ups, see how they do things, ask questions, etc.
Where are you located? If you prefer not to post your location here, email me at:
vivariumconcepts.com@gmail.com and we can probably find someone relatively close to you, that could mentor you.

[Philsuma]

Kevin,

Even though I personally feel it's unfounded, I totally get your trepidation about meeting people from forums.

I'll suggest that you try to attend a larger group function - meetings, Frog Day 2012 is going to be in Chicago.....large events with lots of people may be more to your liking and tolerance level. Do not write off the local people .You live in an area that probably has a lot of froggers close to you - a jackpot of riches compare to some other people in less "frogger rich" areas of the country.

[dynekevin]

Cindy - Im glad you feel the same way about the leucs. Do you think i will be able to relocate them into a bigger vivarium eventually? As well as introduce a couple more with the pair? I also think just going with the luecs will be a great learning experience for me. I am only 21yrs old so i suppose i would be considered young in the dart frog communities. I live just about 30 min south of chicago (Plainfield, IL).

Philsuma - I definitely will not "write off" any locals. I am sure they are a great source of information. I dont know.. i am still very new to this hobby and maybe its common for froggers to meet each other and share tanks/setups and just simple communication. I have only attended one reptile expo and boooooyyyy were there some interesting charactors there lol! I also find it hard to pm someone and be like "hey, can i come see your dart frog room?". Maybe after a few more reptile expos and i become more of the dart frog community these things will come along easier. Although, i do think i have taken some pretty good steps in the right direction. I've done months of research, joined multiple frog communities, and built/seeded my first vivarium without any major problems. Furthermore, thanks to forums like this one i have not made some of the "noobie" mistakes and bought frogs without proper housing. Yet, i am still going to take my time and select a frog that i like and feel comfortable caring for.

Thanks you two! I am glad to start being more of a part to this community here at dart den =)