Of concern: Hybrids sold at the Hamburg show

[frogface]

As posted on DB:

I personally know the OP and the history of the frogs. The full blooded one is a Suriname Cobalt from Black Jungle. The original owner travels now and can't care for it.

The owner of the hybrids purchased them at a reptile show in Pittsburgh - the Hamburg show. The seller was disreputable and sold them as full blooded. Afterwards, another vendor at the show mentioned they were hybrids, that she personally bred them and sold them to the dealer at the show. They are supposedly a cross between an Alanis and Azurures. Both vendors are active on this board so that is all I will say on the subject.

The OP is an animal lover and just trying to do the right thing. She just wants them healthy and kept by someone who will care for them as well as she does. She has no interest in frogs and is going broke buying flies. Please be respectful to her...

Bill

My comments: Do any of you know who these breeders and sellers are? I would like to put them on my 'do not buy' list.

[Philsuma]

Thanks for posting this Kris....

The old list of "permissioned" or censored words includes hard linking back to DB. I think Corey did that at the request of Kyle, if I'm not mistaken. We are going to have to fix that, I can see....

I'll try to find that thread overthere and check it out......what section is it in?

Everyone who "knows better"....knows that Hamburg Pa (Reptile Show) is NOWHERE close to Pittsburgh, so that statement sets off alarm bells of B.S for me, right away...

[frogface]

What the.... HEY! I'm being censored! :p

[Philsuma]

lol....see my above explanation..heh

[frogface]

"4 dart frogs need a home" In the beginners section.

[Philsuma]

Go it now...

Tell everyone over "there" (DB) to post over HERE when they know who produced and sold those frogs. The Mods and Admins will either lock or delete anything over there.

#1 . It's never the frogs fault. They can't help it.

#2. They don't deserve to be killed either.

and the big one...

#3 .Let's try to make sure this doesn't happen again, so that other people and other animals do not have to go thru this....

[frogface]

I'll see what I can find out

eta: sent a PM to the OP

[Philsuma]

Wow...some people "over there" just don't get it. They are only fledgling hobbyists with a year or 2 of experience though...so it's to be expected.

One guy said "that's it..I had enough of the rudeness......I'm leaving"

Well...that's the problem. He leaves but the frogs stay in the hobby. No one wants to kill them, and it's not the frogs fault, but as you can see...the people leave the hobby, but the frogs ?

They stay....

Food for thought.

[frogfreak]

Off topic, but I showed Laura the pic and she immediately said "Cross Powder and Alanis?" Close Hun!

O my God, I'm so lucky She's a frogger too.

Nothing against the new owner at all, but I wish they went to a zoo. At least that way they wouldn't be floating around out there. There was also someone spouting off about us purists, getting off our high horses. Seems to me, there's been a lot of that lately..

[Philsuma]

Yep...there's just a large amount of people that bristle at ANY attempt that they feel is "control", no matter what.

They don't have enough of an understanding of the issue at all, and yet they are oh so quick to scream "don't tell me what to do".

[Tony]

[frogfreak]

You know what I find interesting...That thread has been up for 2 days and over 2,500 views...Hmmm

[Philsuma]

You know what I find interesting...That thread has been up for 2 days and over 2,500 views...Hmmm

well....to that, I would say, Froggers need to see a "scrap" once in a while. Think about how boring things are: talking about Frogs, Frog Care, Frog Husbandry, Frog Taxonomy.....

We all DO need a little "Jerry Springer" every so often.

"I'm not your mixed Frog's Babys Daddy"

"You are so my mixed Frog's Babys Daddy" !

"Prove it....you got no DNA"....

[frogfreak]

I hear you, Phil, but I can't help but wonder if there's a bunch of Hybrids/Crosses out there just waiting to be accepted by the hobby...How many are doing this out of sight and are waiting for the door to open...It seems to me that the mixing/crossing/hybrids are gaining ground. That I don't GET at all. Getting bored, get some tree frogs or toads. Switch hobbies and get into birds or reptiles. Buy a dog!

I've never been into the Reptile hobby, but I do go to shows and see the crosses. That's something I do not want to see in this hobby! We have way to many PDF's to choose from in the first place and it would be very difficult to keep them all. I just don't get why someone would want to go that route...I guess I'm on a 'High horse" now...

[Philsuma]

I'm with you Glenn,

Here's the real HORROR senario : Someone is secretly mixing OR line breeding the CRAP out of Leucs or Azureus or some kind of Tinc and they just keep crossing and mixing ect ect and tossing the froglets that they feel are not good enough for their project and a big wholesaler like LLL gets them and POW....they get dispersed all over the country.

What the "pro-mixers" don't get ,is that the more questionable, discarded frogs like from the above case, get revealed in the hobby (after a while), the more a large percentage of us are going to demand pure blood that we know isn't all mutted up and you know what that means ?

Imports, Imports, Imports....

Goodbye Conservation attempts.

Hello, wholesale frog snatching.

Hello film can smugglers.

Oh boy.....

[Philsuma]

They locked the thread over there......try to get more info posted here if you guys can.....

[frogface]

There is a continuation in the Thunderdome of another forum.

[Philsuma]

so, to recap the rumours so far:

1. Hamburg Pa Reptile show.

2. A "Sponsor" or big breeder / supplier is the seller.

3. The Big Seller was either aware of the crossed animals or the Big seller was duped into thinking the animals he bought wholesale were not mixed.

[JJuchems]

This is not shocking at all. There is no way to dictate how everyone keeps their frogs let alone outcross/hybridize. People purchase the animal, and do what they wish with them. I have see Leuc/auratus hybrid at NARBC. I have seen them on the table of a huge nationwide vendor.

[Philsuma]

This is not shocking at all. There is no way to dictate how everyone keeps their frogs let alone outcross/hybridize. People purchase the animal, and do what they wish with them. I have see Leuc/auratus hybrid at NARBC. I have seen them on the table of a huge nationwide vendor.

1. Was it acurately labeled "Hybrid" ?

2. Was it displayed only.....or was it "For sale to anyone" ?

What people do in the confines of their own homes is never shocking....

The shocking / disappointing part is the "injecting" man-made frogs into the mainstream hobby and also doing so by lying or misrepresenting what they are.