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Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios
#1
I think I had a PM on another Forum asking for info about this topic, so here goes...

My personal enclosure size preference for this species is:

20 - 29 Gallon Vert for 1.1

"33" Gallon Exoterra or Zoomed Verts or similiar size for 1.2 I do feel that the addtional female allows for the possibility of a greater morph rate and overall , healthier froglets. I try to maintain all my groups in this ratio.

Enclosure size: If you can swing it, "Bigger is DEF better". nuff' said.

Females can scrap - I have 2 Rio Guarumos going at it currently, and if I see a lack of aggressive feeding or pronounced weight loss, I'll pull one of the females.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#2
Tks, for the info. Im def interested in them down the road
Dendrobates, Phyllobates, Rantiomeya, Epipedobates
Don
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#3
I have my pair (plus froglet now) in a 20 high vert. It seems like it's just on the verge of not being big enough. Not enough room for all the plants and hidey spots I think they should have. While I think it is ok, I'm hoping to upgrade them to a larger tank in the future.
Do you know where your frogs have been?
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#4
Phil, would an 18x18x24 ExoTerra be ok?
Dendrobates, Phyllobates, Rantiomeya, Epipedobates
Don
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#5
dtfleming Wrote:Phil, would an 18x18x24 ExoTerra be ok?

That size would be fine for 1.1

I suck at remembering which sizes are which.....I still like to use "gallons" just cause it what's my mind processes easily.

I use the medium / "high" exoterra and zoo meds and, can go with 1.2 in those. I just don't like "cubes" or those square sized vivs. I like the taller ones for pumilio.
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#6
yeah this would be taller than wide. I was thinking a 20g vert at first, but after re-reading this, I decided against it. Pumilio are way in the future for me, last frogs I plan on getting
Dendrobates, Phyllobates, Rantiomeya, Epipedobates
Don
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#7
Hmm, I always figured a 18" Cube exo being about the perfect size for a pair. Do yours climb much? I know my escudo don't climb at all and my San Cristobals don't do too much climbing but then again they are in a 75gal horizontal so maybe if they did have more verticle space they would utilize it. I am no position to comment on pumilio care though especially since I only have two species.
"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom" LaVey
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#8
I consider pumilio and most thumbs - 1/2 and 1/2 arboreal, so I make sure to give them the ability to climb with a higher tank.

Whereas I consider all Tinc and Tinc types (Leucs, auratus similar) to be at least 75% "terrestrial", and they get the lower tanks.
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#9
In my experience, all egg feeders, not just pumilio, will use all the floor space AND height you give them (as long as the tank is extremely planted and lots of leaf litter), so I think the largest tank you can use with as much of both as possible are the best
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#10
ChrisK Wrote:In my experience, all egg feeders, not just pumilio, will use all the floor space AND height you give them (as long as the tank is extremely planted and lots of leaf litter), so I think the largest tank you can use with as much of both as possible are the best

I have 1:2 San Cristobals in a 75gal and they only utilize a little over 1/3 of the tank. Matter of fact only once have I seen another frog on the other side and that was when I introduced the new male. He went on a walk about before settling in by the girls.
"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom" LaVey
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#11
Is it extremely heavily planted?
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#12
[youtube]PqV-6WSXyGY?hd=1[/youtube]
"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom" LaVey
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#13
Do you check them out a lot in the morning or during midday? I got a CDA pair that I swear isn't even in there, but sometimes when I'm home during the day I see them all over the tank.

Do you also check them out before the lights go on? Some of mine also are all over the place with ambient room light, as soon as the bright spotlight comes on beating down they're in a brom leaf for the rest of the day - which also leads to, more large and large-leafed plants in there could also help, the type that fill up the "empty air" space in the tank which creates more useable area for them to climb on/around and that could block light from hitting the floor
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#14
pumilio can easily become content with a small portion of a large tank. Their densities are quite deep in the wild, some some individuals settling into small areas.

That's the part that misleads people into thinking that pairs of pumilio can do fine in 10 gallon verts. Anything is possible ( I saw Sean Stewarts grow out retics reach sexual maturity and lay eggs in a shoe box ! ) but all the breeders and people that I tend to value - opinion wise, say that bigger is better and try not to house a pair of pumilio in anything less than a 20 gallon vert. I personally shoot for 30 gallons and I know a lot of people trying to keep their pums in all 40 gallon sizes.
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#15
That's a cool viv,Michael !

Can we get another video - a close up, this time ?
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#16
Still seeing a lot of pumilio pairs being stuffed in a 10 gallon vert or 3-4 in a 20 gallon.

I feel that's all way too small..especially with a false bottom taking up space.

Thoughts ?
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#17
I do pairs in 26 gallon custom tanks. They seem to be about perfect for them. But I will say that I think it has more to do with how the tank is set up, then how big it is. When I had a BJ pair in a heavily planted 75 I never saw them. Now I've kept 3 different pairs in those 26 gals but instead of heavily planting I set them up better and they never hide.
Adam Hess
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#18
thedude Wrote:I do pairs in 26 gallon custom tanks. They seem to be about perfect for them. But I will say that I think it has more to do with how the tank is set up, then how big it is. When I had a BJ pair in a heavily planted 75 I never saw them. Now I've kept 3 different pairs in those 26 gals but instead of heavily planting I set them up better and they never hide.
Any pics, Adam?

Best
Glenn
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#19
Seeing some people keep pumilio, even a pair, in a sterlite box for a temp tank. IMO...don't keep them in any sort of enclosed plastic box/bin/tank. Tincs, tinc-type frogs, I've never had a problem with in a plastic tote/box, but pums....It's my opinion that they need more ventilation and room. I lost more than a couple to bad enclosure sizes and designs. They were all WC, but I'm a firm believer in my theory.

I would never house a pum in even a temp tank, smaller than a 10 gallon - for one. AND it would have above average ventilation.
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#20
Philsuma Wrote:Seeing some people keep pumilio, even a pair, in a sterlite box for a temp tank. IMO...don't keep them in any sort of enclosed plastic box/bin/tank. Tincs, tinc-type frogs, I've never had a problem with in a plastic tote/box, but pums....It's my opinion that they need more ventilation and room. I lost more than a couple to bad enclosure sizes and designs. They were all WC, but I'm a firm believer in my theory.

I would never house a pum in even a temp tank, smaller than a 10 gallon - for one. AND it would have above average ventilation.
Phil
You are 110% right. The stress alone for a pumilio to be in a clear shoebox is killer. Film cans or not. Before WC imports or new pair qt prep, I'll just prepare a 10g horizontal with pothos leaf litter and two decent size broms in the ground and I have had awesome results. Shoebox/tub qt procedure should be xd IMO.
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