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Oophaga sylvatica "Paru" possibly hitting the shelves
#1
There are sylvatica already in U.S collections, albeit, not publically talked about, but not this particular morph I think.

This is supposedly a 100% Ecuadorian effort and that's something special.

but

What will the price be ? The price....will be TELLING. Does the money go to 100% Ecuador or are there middle men ?

Remember, O. pumilio from Panama are still readily available for $40-50 each.

So....it's going to be tough and tricky to portay this as "conservation" or "grass roots / green" and host country friendly.

again....the price....will be....telling.
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#2
Philsuma Wrote:There are sylvatica already in U.S collections, albeit, not publically talked about, but not this particular morph I think.

This is supposedly a 100% Ecuadorian effort and that's something special.

but

What will the price be ? The price....will be TELLING. Does the money go to 100% Ecuador or are there middle men ?

Remember, O. pumilio from Panama are still readily available for $40-50 each.

So....it's going to be tough and tricky to portay this as "conservation" or "grass roots / green" and host country friendly.

again....the price....will be....telling.
can you tell us more than the above Phil? as well as the general thrirst for knowledge elabourate for me what exactly you mean by the price will be telling,please
i wonder if some will come here?
thanks
Stu
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#3
it seems the cost of these animals are being "tied into" a conservation effort...and all of that is fine ect.

It's going to be hard to put a value/number ect on these imported animals and say "is someone making money" as opposed to conservation but I'm pretty sure the public and the hobby deserves to keep a keen eye on things like this.

I don't want to sound alarmist...but you only have to look at Save The Frogs to make one think. Again, not saying ANYTHING bad here. Just cautiously optimistic is a better word.
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#4
Philsuma Wrote:it seems the cost of these animals are being "tied into" a conservation effort...and all of that is fine ect.

It's going to be hard to put a value/number ect on these imported animals and say "is someone making money" as opposed to conservation but I'm pretty sure the public and the hobby deserves to keep a keen eye on things like this.

I don't want to sound alarmist...but you only have to look at Save The Frogs to make one think. Again, not saying ANYTHING bad here. Just cautiously optimistic is a better word.
I don't think alrmist Phil i guess transparency is the key with all these projects,all though we are not rich folks it has always been our intention to chuck something back,i know slightly off topic but it ties well to this,i would love the little bit that we can muster to go to the frogs directly,but someone somewhere has to live whilst making the "work" happen..they need paying!
I would love personnaly to know that X% of my buck/pound goes to the actual project and the rest goes to men inbetween that get that frog to me rears said frog etc etc.But i guess the big deal is that if the locals get the biggest share then they don't trash the resource that feeds them,and the habitat is safe,with out which all is lost. I started serching after posting it seems that this might be a milestone project being run by Ecuadorians which must be a great thing then as you say we just need to know what gets added,if its transparent we are can make educated desions. It would be good for there to be paper shipped with each and also maybe even some form of i can't think of quite the right word but pedegree,so the breeders could keep track of where the genes are going,you know what i'm trying to say,make educated choices as to where to out cross...i no pedegree is not the right word,,heredity,maybe.After all sylvs should be relativel easy to track being fairly low volume breeders,unless they have cracked fostering of course.
regards
Stu
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#5
looking at the site, it looks "real" not a fly by night site. also they are selling other types also not just the sylvatica. from what i read mark pepper gives it a thumbs up also. its good that there will be legal ones coming in but this will be one more as i call it fad frog. just as many years ago the fad was auratus from panama, pumilio from panama, benedicta. the "old school" frogs seem to go by the waste side. when i got interested in this hobby it was costa rican auratus for sale. now i don't know who has any of these for sale.
walt
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#6
Where is this site?
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#7
pa.walt Wrote:looking at the site, it looks "real" not a fly by night site. also they are selling other types also not just the sylvatica. from what i read mark pepper gives it a thumbs up also. its good that there will be legal ones coming in but this will be one more as i call it fad frog. just as many years ago the fad was auratus from panama, pumilio from panama, benedicta. the "old school" frogs seem to go by the waste side. when i got interested in this hobby it was costa rican auratus for sale. now i don't know who has any of these for sale.
walt
I think Cindy Dicken works with these, CR auratus,i'm embaressed to say off the top of my head i'm not sure ,i appreciate what your saying,although i have not been in this long enough to have whitnessed the fads. what i do know is before i had any real experiance any frogs while i was slowly scheming how to keep a dart,i came across histo/slyvs,i didn't know they were the most desired,there was all this hype about them i just wanted!!! As i learnt just a tiny bit more i wanted them more,the challange,as a breeder as a stockman but essentially the oustanding beauty of them to my eyes. But i don't live by fashion i adore our auratus,will always want to keep thembut i'd love to be a custodan of some of these.
But above and beyond all this,if their desirability can safe guard the habitat by realising revenue for the Eucuadorian rain forest,and maybe just maybe influence their neighbour to do the same,it surely can only be a good thing? To draw a parallel,with good old England its hard to find an old old tree here,apart from some estates that shoot pheasant,here the trees are essential so they are not cut down to release revenue for timber,its sad to say but in our consumer world money talks,if this is a truely sustainable resourse,it could be a tiny step foward in keeping these habitatswhich is i guess the bigg issue here
regards
Stu
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#8
pa.walt Wrote:looking at the site, it looks "real" not a fly by night site. also they are selling other types also not just the sylvatica. from what i read mark pepper gives it a thumbs up also. its good that there will be legal ones coming in but this will be one more as i call it fad frog. just as many years ago the fad was auratus from panama, pumilio from panama, benedicta. the "old school" frogs seem to go by the waste side. when i got interested in this hobby it was costa rican auratus for sale. now i don't know who has any of these for sale.
walt

I know of 5 people who are constantly breeding CR Auratus. Under the Canopy, Cindy Dickens, SNDF, a local person, and I believe bill schwinn
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#9
Philsuma Wrote:it seems the cost of these animals are being "tied into" a conservation effort...and all of that is fine ect.

You can say the same about all the frogs coming out of panama too then. Panama charges at least $2-$3 dollars per frog when they are being exported to go back into conservation. So what i am curious about is how much is actually going to conservation? The full $300 per frog or just part of it?
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#10
So UE is charging $300 per frog? Anyone know how many are coming in first round?
Scott - North Dallas
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#11
RanaVenenosa Wrote:So UE is charging $300 per frog? Anyone know how many are coming in first round?
Sorry to confuse, Im not sure what the price is. Just guessing and using it as an example
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#12
gamerfreak167 Wrote:
Philsuma Wrote:it seems the cost of these animals are being "tied into" a conservation effort...and all of that is fine ect.

You can say the same about all the frogs coming out of panama too then. Panama charges at least $2-$3 dollars per frog when they are being exported to go back into conservation.

Where did you get this number ? Please expound on fees and charges for Panamanian exports. I'm interested.
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#13
Philsuma Wrote:
gamerfreak167 Wrote:
Philsuma Wrote:it seems the cost of these animals are being "tied into" a conservation effort...and all of that is fine ect.

You can say the same about all the frogs coming out of panama too then. Panama charges at least $2-$3 dollars per frog when they are being exported to go back into conservation.

Where did you get this number ? Please expound on fees and charges for Panamanian exports. I'm interested.

I talked to several importers in Fl. Two amigos, strickly, sndf, etc.
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#14
I had heard $500 each yesterday at MADS from someone who said that they were offered to pre-order...but I guess we wont really know until prices are posted...
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#15
So is it indeed $500.00 each then ?
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#16
Philsuma Wrote:So is it indeed $500.00 each then ?

Yeah
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#17
Interesting. I'm still going to collect more info and reserve judgement based on price alone....for now.

What are you thoughts on this particular species and morph as well as that price, Chris ?

BTW....missed you at Georges. You and Jeff R.
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#18
Philsuma Wrote:Interesting. I'm still going to collect more info and reserve judgement based on price alone....for now.

What are you thoughts on this particular species and morph as well as that price, Chris ?

BTW....missed you at Georges. You and Jeff R.


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#19
Philsuma Wrote:Interesting. I'm still going to collect more info and reserve judgement based on price alone....for now.

What are you thoughts on this particular species and morph as well as that price, Chris ?

BTW....missed you at Georges. You and Jeff R.

Well I know they're not for everybody but this class of frogs were the ones that always grabbed ME since the 90s when I got my first Ecuadorian histos, didn't see this morph in person yet but from lots of the pics I saw they look great with lots of outrageous variability. Price is definitely fair considering their source and all the work going into producing and importing them healthy and sustainably, like Ed mentioned elsewhere hopefully the people who really love THESE frogs will be the ones getting them instead of for status or rarity reasons.
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#20
Hey Phil,
$500 is very fair to me. Considering all the work going towards the reserves, the research, breeding programs, paper work and permits in Ecuador as well as Canada and the U.S.

Just some things to think about.
Adam Hess
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