Poll - Changes in the hobby YOU want to see

[rcteem]

I'm curious to see what everyone would like to see different in the dart frog hobby. I've listed 9 choices and allowed you to pick 3 choices. If you choose other, please post on this thread and be specific in what your idea would be.

[Michael Lawrence]

well your 3 picks must be in there Chris what are they?

If I had a choice for 3 changes it would more push for a community hobby, not community businesses. We need to put forth more effort to teach and share knowledge not more effort to get our names out there to sell more stuff. I would also say before conservation work which we as few or individuals cant really help in the US need to work on better managing whats here and put together long term plans for breeding lines in order to make sure they stay here and in as close as possible to being a natural representation. Third I want to see more push to give, we are a community hobby. Why is it everytime I see people in need of feeders of a new hobbyists its always left with people ready to sell them something? Nothing wrong with making a buck but it seems to run this HOBBY.
Got to fix whats wrong before we keep adding to the problems and grow.
Michael

[rcteem]

well your 3 picks must be in there Chris what are they?

If I had a choice for 3 changes it would more push for a community hobby, not community businesses. We need to put forth more effort to teach and share knowledge not more effort to get our names out there to sell more stuff. I would also say before conservation work which we as few or individuals cant really help in the US need to work on better managing whats here and put together long term plans for breeding lines in order to make sure they stay here and in as close as possible to being a natural representation. Third I want to see more push to give, we are a community hobby. Why is it everytime I see people in need of feeders of a new hobbyists its always left with people ready to sell them something? Nothing wrong with making a buck but it seems to run this HOBBY.
Got to fix whats wrong before we keep adding to the problems and grow.
Michael

Michael, you made some great points that would help further this hobby!!! Another great one might be less cliquish. I hate how this hobby can be kind to people if they know them or agree 100% with you, but if they don't know you or don't agree with you your views it can get ugly sometimes.

I voted for the following:
Site specific frogs
More companies like Mark P.
Larger conservation efforts

Site specific frogs is very important because we need to make sure our genes are strong and specific to a region that way if a wild population is in need of help, we have something to reintroduce to that region or species as a whole.

We need more companies like Mark P. to bring in species to the hobby in an sustainable manner and create a less demand for smuggled frogs.

Conservation of dart frogs is huge...if they are gone from the wild we have none to bring into the hobby and the ones in the hobby will slowly get inbreed to a point that will result in the loss of that species if reintroduction doesn't happen. It's a way to also preserve the land, it's culture, and it's flora and fauna.

Those are my thoughts...like them or not that is what I would like to see.


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[rcteem]

Anyone else want to post what they voted for and why?


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[Philsuma]

I had a long post and I submitted it at .0001 nanoseconds after you did and it disappeared. I'll rewrite it....

[Michael Lawrence]

I hear you on the in-hobby gang affiliations but like any other situation like minded people tend to back one another up. I do think everyone needs a chance and I don't hold anyone above anyone else, just the knowledge they bring to the table.

Site specific is definitely an issue but we need to plan this management of frogs for everything here and lead by example before we bring in more or it just ads to the mess. All the best guesses that come in could easily be tracked and managed if more people put in the effort,.

Definitely need to back those who try but this again gets to your point of cliquish. I would like to see more effort on many of these guys on the ground in the countries of origin to start helping with direct habitat knowledge and even photography not just bringing in frogs to make a buck.

Conservation is another but I look at it another way, I don't necessarily think everything will become inbred if we don't get more lines in, we need to better manage whats here. I do like the thought of new blood as much as anyone but we cant always depend on it, as you said many of these frogs will disappear and even if we do our part it comes down to the fact that the countries of origin need to do more. My views are not so great on the grounds that so much effort has been put into proving and claiming that the hobby could not assist with the reintro needs. Organizations have failed at this so I see no reason the hobby couldn't help out given the right plans. Writing off those who would like to help is a bad practice.After all they depend on our money for the most part.

Good answers by the way Chris, I like to see that people aren't only worried about what they get out of this hobby.


Michael

[rcteem]

Well said...Dont get me wrong, better management here is a MUST but if we wait to long to get things right here it might be to long for some species in the wild. I feel if we have a group of people working on these aspects, both you and I have listed, at the same time we will have a completely different hobby in a few years. You want to preserve the frogs here in the states, I want to preserve the frogs in the wild and help bring in frogs in a sustainable way with locale info, pictures, paperwork, etc. Our passions on on the same direction to our overall goal, we are just taking different ways to get there.

[Michael Lawrence]

Definitely need to back those who try but this again gets to your point of cliquish. I would like to see more effort on many of these guys on the ground in the countries of origin to start helping with direct habitat knowledge and even photography not just bringing in frogs to make a buck.

Wanted to add to this bit. While I know UE has a great rep I dont think they or others have done enough to push more direct knowledge out into the hobby. They and others down there have the benefit of sharing alot of info that would allow many to put more effort and research into trying to match alot of the natural conditions for the frogs. sending people to these guys is one thing but I think there's always room for improvement so I wouldnt personally blindly back them to any and all. Way too many unknowns.

Michael

[Philsuma]

While I know UE has a great rep I dont think they or others have done enough to push more direct knowledge out into the hobby.

Michael

This pertains to all "those who don't post"...not singling anyone out over anyone else.

Why is that ?

I'll tell you why I think it is....business before hobby.

Hobbyists create forums
Hobbyists buy forums
Hobbyists post a shit load of pics and builds and posts
Hobbyists bust their ass and deal with shit to further the hobby and the forums

What do businessmen do ?
Businessmen sell
They don't have any sort of large post counts, do they ?

[Michael Lawrence]

While I know UE has a great rep I don't think they or others have done enough to push more direct knowledge out into the hobby.

Michael

This pertains to all "those who don't post"...not singling anyone out over anyone else.

Why is that ?

I'll tell you why I think it is....business before hobby.

Hobbyists create forums
Hobbyists buy forums
Hobbyists post a shit load of pics and builds and posts
Hobbyists bust their ass and deal with shit to further the hobby and the forums

What do businessmen do ?
Businessmen sell
They don't have any sort of large post counts, do they ?

You forgot Hobbyists donate without requiring breeding stock, Hobbyists are the ones who fund these guys and they tend to only give what you pay for, sometimes less, why there aren't detailed writes about every frog they bring in I haven't a clue as you would think they would want the best care for their frogs. As the for front of this hobby they should live up to it. I could post pages of questions about detailed natural environment info Id like to know. They pay a few bucks to board owners and all you see is the good about them...

This is why I wouldn't back any of them. It will only contribute to gossip that they are the best and have done enough. There is and will always be room for improvement.

Michael

[Azurel]

I voted for more site specifics and paper work
Companies like UE- much in the same manner as Chris but also a lot of what I see on his site the frogs have some general site specific info( mainly Ranitomeya) which I have payed most attention to. Although I have started reading and getting interested in O. pumilio....
The third I cannot remember it was either DBU or magazine
If it was magazine mainly the purpose of write ups about the locals and environment, pictures of where these frogs come from.

trying to match a lot of the natural conditions for the frogs

This is why I have bought and subscribes to Bri Bri and DN magazines....A US version would be a great benefit.

What do businessmen do ?
Businessmen sell

This shouldn't surprise you should it? I guess I find it baffling that they are expected to do more then what they are or this animosity it seems toward the business sector of the hobby. They fill their role in the hobby selling and providing a service could they do more as far as site specific information? Yes of course, but that is a whole other subject and we have to remember that they are counting on other humans that in reality could give a shit what the US hobbyist care or want. I can tell you that getting those that are on the ground in the bushes or water to care, takes a lot of work, money, time, and education if they are the same type of people that supply wild life in other hobbies.

I guess I don't understand this unknown expectation that this hobby has placed on the "business" end of it. From my other hobbies they supply, we buy and that is the line. Although most do cross over as hobbyist it is well known that they are business and there is no expectation of anything more then that.
I guess I am asking as well some clarification....Unless I have a wrong perception of it?

While I know UE has a great rep I don't think they or others have done enough to push more direct knowledge out into the hobby

Has anybody asked them? Does he/they even know that there is a niche that they could fill with the extra knowledge that they could provide? I don't know if anyone has so, I can't answer that. I don't know how much they have to deal with so maybe it is a case of they already have their hands full with legalities, paper work, and all the other things that it takes to run a business, not to mention family and life in general to even have time to deal with it....I don't know that either. It would be great info if it was provided by those that could/can.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Since I haven't been in the hobby long enough I find you guys that have been around the hobby and on the ground floor as it has been built provide great info and help.....Which you should be thanked for. I have much appreciation for those that I have found to be trustworthy.

So thank you.

[Michael Lawrence]

James, these guys have in fact been asked to fill this niche by many, I know Ive asked and I can tell you we have had more luck getting ground central info and pics from Hobbyists who've gone down there as well as others online that live in the regions. I just don't think they are all that worried about it. I do know for a fact when there is talk of other projects getting started the ones down there have in the past taken it as an insult and even a turf war kind of attitude. Its all business, your right and I have to wonder if the hobby crashes will they stay down there and do their part with conservation ? I doubt it.

Michael

[Philsuma]

Some of the Larger Businesses - some are Breeders, some are importers / exporters and some are both:

1. Josh's Frogs
2. Black Jungle
3. SNDF / Marcus Breece
4. Herpetologic / Sean Stewart
5. Understory Enterprises / Mark Pepper
6. Strictly Reptiles

Out of this small list, would you consider them all the same ?

So are all "businesses the same" ? Not in my book. Are some "better" than others .Most definately.

Do some of those listed above earn my praise and patronage and the reverse for others ? Yep.

[Azurel]

James, these guys have in fact been asked to fill this niche by many, I know Ive asked and I can tell you we have had more luck getting ground central info and pics from Hobbyists who've gone down there as well as others online that live in the regions. I just don't think they are all that worried about it. I do know for a fact when there is talk of other projects getting started the ones down there have in the past taken it as an insult and even a turf war kind of attitude. Its all business, your right and I have to wonder if the hobby crashes will they stay down there and do their part with conservation ? I doubt it.

Michael

Thanks for clarifying Mike......You are probably right in the fact they wouldn't.....

Some of the Larger Businesses - some are Breeders, some are importers / exporters and some are both:

1. Josh's Frogs
2. Black Jungle
3. SNDF / Marcus Breece
4. Herpetologic / Sean Stewart
5. Understory Enterprises / Mark Pepper
6. Strictly Reptiles

Out of this small list, would you consider them all the same ?

So are all "businesses the same" ? Not in my book. Are some "better" than others .Most definitely.

Do some of those listed above earn my praise and patronage and the reverse for others ? Yep.

Your right they are not all the same, just like BMW isn't GM but, they all have the same thing in common and that is to make money no matter how great or she they are or the service they provide. I am they same way though and extremely selective on who I spend my dollar with.

[dtfleming]

As a newb, I voted for:

1. More Site Specific frogs and paperwork
2. More conservation efforts
3. US based magazine that would hopefully provide hobby, conservation, and frog information.

It's a shame that a company like UE does not have more forthcoming info. on the habitats of the frogs. I agree with what Phil stated, that they are businesses first and foremost.

[Philsuma]

Interesting choices here so far.....

[Philsuma]

Big requests for an American Dart Frog publication of some kind....interesting.

[Michael Lawrence]

I think there a better chance of getting Reptiles to just do a full amphibian section in their mag, but who knows
..

[blocker institute]

I personally would vote for more emphasis on science and scientific observation...leading to research papers and furthering the conservation of amphibians.


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