Poll - Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

[Philsuma]

Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

[Venomos]

Just my opinion...I think they should. There is a lot of times I don't pursue something because I don't know what it costs. I hate to waste someone else's time asking. When the price is there I can make the decision if its too high or something I want to pursue. I can see where some people would stand on not wanting it there because of people lowballing and dropping prices on frogs that should be netting more money. But then helps keep someone from getting screwed like noobs who have no idea and someone sees a quick way to take advantage of someone. Odds are they won't do it when its publically posted because you advanced guys will call them out on it. So yeah I personally am on the fence about it. But right now would prefer to see them. I see both sides of this, with many other scenarios and reasons as well.

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[evolvstll]

I like the idea of having a standard format for the classifieds. An individual can fill out know information. If someone wants to put email or pm for prices I do not see an issue with it. I see it that if not putting a price on an ad costs a sale, you will see a price next time. Pulling ads because someone didnt put a price seems a bit extreme to me.

[JJuchems]

Yes. If you choose to give a different price to someone that is your choice, however for those interested a baseline price should be provided. At swaps if your frogs/geckos/tortoises are not priced I no longer shop your table. I have had to many people give me a price based on appearance than a selling price.

I am a polo and khakis guy. I did not own a pair of jeans until a little over a year ago. I had a guy tell me a gecko was $175, and not joking two minutes later my friend bought the same gecko for $100. I done the same with emails on kingsnake before they are pulled. Poisonfrogs.net email has gotten higher prices than my secret msn.com email.

[RanaVenenosa]

I voted No

Why? they are not my frogs. If a person wants to not list a price that is his/her prerogative. Now, i personally prefer when someone lists a price or range, but I understand that w rare animals, a price can be negotiable and if you list, people will tend to "low ball" or get some idea because Jack sold some last month for XXX, then yours should also be that price or near. Also, you might want to do auction style. If someone listed a pair of proven CB histos, do you think a few weeks of advertising and a concealed bidder auction could muster some $$$ mulaa vs a stated price???? Or then again, is price that important? Would you sell a proven pair of CB histos to someone w no experience if they offered double over known breeder... mmmm I would not.
Since most frogs that are sold are generally common to uncommon its easy to guess the price if it wasn't listed. At the end of the day its supply and demand. Its worth what someone is willing to pay. Both they buyer and seller risk losing a deal on psychology of posting or not posting a price.

But this begs the ques that price is the most important thing to the seller and buyer...

[Venomos]

I want to add...I didn't state what I did to have advertisements pulled if no price. Just short and sweet, would prefer to see pricing listed. If I think its high and I want it, I can negotiate. But at least gives me an idea where the sellers mindset is at. Guess I should have thought about it more in depth before I posted.

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[Natures Gems]

i think yes for juveniles in the 3-4 month range.

for sub-adults and adults asking for a potential buyer to emali for prices should be ok because the seller may have sub adults and adults at various different pricing due to age of the animal and of course sexed adults or pairs. but for 3-4 month juveniles prices should be listed. only difference is per morph.

if a buyer has many different morphs and doesn't want to list the juvenile prices of each morph than maybe it would be ok to ask to pm. i would list all juvenile prices and maybe even sub adults.

[frogfreak]

I voted no, because it just doesn't seem that important. If i see something I'm interested in, it's not a big deal to shoot the seller a PM or e-mail to see what they're asking. In some cases the seller may not want the whole world to know what they are selling their frogs for anyways, especially rarer ones that may not be offered to newer folks.

[DKOOISTRA]

I can't really imagine why someone would not want to put a price on the ad? The "how much is it?" emails would be insane to keep up with.
Derek

[RichFrye]

1. Family.
2. Good friends.
3. Old friends, but not close friends.
4. 'Strangers' who are very well respected and very accomplished in the hobby.
5. Newbies.
6. Old timers who constantly mix and never quarantine.
7. New timers who flip, mix, lie, ect.
8. Great loyal customers who buy from me all the time.
9. Established froggers who have never emailed, talked, or conversed with me at all.
10. Froggers I love.
11. Froggers I hate.



Sure, the above categories all deserve the same price and right to own my frogs... :roll:
It's real simple and has worked for me for almost ten years now. When I have something for sale or am opening a wait list all you need to do is ask me what the full situation is (including price) , even if it is not listed on some social forum... If you are not ready for any certain frog I won't sell it at any price, just ask around to see if I am BSing here.
My prices on any one given frog range from free to 'full retail' , and they depend on much more than the many categories the above froggers fit into.
Please let me know when these babies come with bar codes , and the froggers interested have posted a resume letting me know all about them and their experiences, and I'll start posting prices on all my frogs in public. Until then , ask about any situation. The price should be one of the very last concerns.

[Eric Walker]

IRS would be one reason not to. To many, this is a hobby, not a business. if you are working with expensive animals you may not want to post a price in the open for fear of getting the IRS bulldogs chaseing you down. Just my opinion though.

I voted for depends just because of this although there are plenty of other reasons why I would not allways post a price

[RichFrye]

IRS would be one reason not to. To many, this is a hobby, not a business. if you are working with expensive animals you may not want to post a price in the open for fear of getting the IRS bulldogs chaseing you down. Just my opinion though.

I voted for depends just because of this although there are plenty of other reasons why I would not allways post a price

Rats. Rats would be another reason to not only not post prices , but not post specific species. Some (most all) rats are uneducated and unaware of real laws . Eventually most rats get what's coming to them in the end though...

[Philsuma]

This issue seems to be hot.

I'm actually on the fence with this - I see well founded arguments for both options. More detailed post to follow...

[DKOOISTRA]

I see your point Rich, and agree, from a business standpoint. On the hobbiest level, I think its a little different.
Generally, if I contact someone, Im ready to buy, and I haven't yet dickered price. I want what I want, and if I have the money, I'm on it. There was a time a while back where I was after a particular frog. I pm'd someone who didn't post a price
(not you Rich). After Pm'ing a bit and asking questions, they asked me how much I'd pay. I offered a good deal more than what I had payed for some juvies I had purchased a while earlier (I ended up with 3 males, and wanted a female). I offered about $50-$75 more than I'd payed for the juvies. The individual replied that I was off siginficantly, seemed rather upset and almost "insulted" at the offer. I offered more than I'd seen others posted for sale at, (missed out on those) and, I was very ready, willing and able to pay whatever the asking price was. If they would have had a price right off the bat, done deal. This was a fairly common frog, nothing fancy. In the end, up to the seller more than anything...
Derek

[Philsuma]

The economy is still very much in the crapper. That said, I think we need to protect the breeder, and thus, the hobby. Not saying either stance is right or wrong, I'm more inclined to grant all the "leeway" that the breeder wants and needs to help him stay alive.

The worst case scenario is that the undisclosed prices come back and bites the breeder in the ass by way of word of mouth...."Hey...why did you quote me $200.00 for the frog and then you told some other guy $150.00" That sort of thing. I still think the breeder's reputation will rise or fall based on a body of work - sales included and the hobby will patronize him or her.....or not.

The only inconvenience is that the newbies are tentative and afraid to ask for prices and possibly be quick to anger over this "odd" sale format. The newbies will survive this, I think, or they weren't meant to be in the hobby anyway.

.....some random thoughts....

[Philsuma]

Keep the comments coming....I can't ignore the large "pro price" sentiment.

Let's hear some thoughts on "pro prices".

[jellyman]

I voted yes. I do not like to haggle or email for prices. The seller still has the option even if he lists a price to decide whom he will or will not sell to and if he wants to sell to someone for less then the price stated in the ad.

[RichFrye]

Anybody who supposedly cares about the hobby care to list what's the most important thing to them when buying a frog?
Seems to many it's all about the price.
Why no poll for health , lineage, age, husbandry practises, ect. ect.? Stuff that really matters down the line.

It's a bit telling.

[edwardsatc]

Pretty simple Phil ... Because many people see it as a "shady" and manipulative business practice.

Let's look at a few of Rich's comments:

1. Family.
2. Good friends.
3. Old friends, but not close friends.
4. 'Strangers' who are very well respected and very accomplished in the hobby.
5. Newbies.
6. Old timers who constantly mix and never quarantine.
7. New timers who flip, mix, lie, ect.
8. Great loyal customers who buy from me all the time.
9. Established froggers who have never emailed, talked, or conversed with me at all.
10. Froggers I love.
11. Froggers I hate.

Sure, the above categories all deserve the same price and right to own my frogs... :roll:

My prices on any one given frog range from free to 'full retail' , and they depend on much more than the many categories the above froggers fit into.

If someone is so full of themself (or their frogs) that they feel they can price their frogs depending upon where I fit into the above criteria, or any other criteria besides what the frogs are worth, then they can keep their frogs. What's next? SSN, previous employment, letters of recommendation, ethnicity ...

Obviously, not everyone who doesn't post a price is up to shady business, but the perception is still there.

My question is why would you not openly price your frogs?

My opinion,
Donn

[edwardsatc]

The economy is still very much in the crapper. That said, I think we need to protect the breeder, and thus, the hobby. Not saying either stance is right or wrong, I'm more inclined to grant all the "leeway" that the breeder wants and needs to help him stay alive.

What is this "leeway"? Sounds like you are saying that if additional financial gain can be made by hiding the price and using some leeway in pricing to take advantage of people, then that's okay to "protect the breeder". How is the consumer, who is facing the same economic times, protected by these practices?

Donn