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Save the Frogs conservation efforts
#1
I figured this may be the place to have this conversation since it wouldn`t be allowed on another site.
Save the Frogs statement on their website, which I can`t seem to find anymore, said that All amphibians in the pet trade transported anywhere into or in the US should be tested for disease, mandatorily, and proven clean. They then state that there is no test for all known diesease and no tests for yet undiscovered disease. It`s been a while since I`ve had a logic class but from what I remeber the only conclusion from those two premise` is that all amphibians should be banned for the pet trade, since you can`t test for what we don`t know about. Their statement on their site, which was prompted from this question, states that if you are going to buy amphibians, buy them locally and make sure they are bred locally. Great statement, and I agree, but that doesn`t mean they won`t recommend banning all amphibians in the pet trade thru their scientific studies and lawyers. My fear is that, if this ever happened, it would destroy any chance of us W/ TWI. It would drive the pet trade underground(just as the Monkey Bite law has done) and destroy any chance of testing animals in captivity since no one would tell what they have. All frogs would then be shipped under the radar, no testing would be done, prices would go thru the roof creating a frog smuggling trade similar to the drug trade. You think frogs are expensive now, couple an illegal trade and the fact that theyre dissappearing in the wild and the economy of the world and you have a real problem.

Are my fears founded? Things like this keep me awake at nite and since I can`t discuss them elsewhere....
Some thoughts.
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile
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#2
Your fears are absolutely founded. The problem I see is everyone who wants to make an impression on someone else (for money, notariety, or whatever their personal reason..example Hollywood's jump on the political bandwagon) will back this peron's efforts for their own personal greed when they couldn't give a crap less if a frog is saved or not. You think anyone of them will jump out in the rain and move a frog off the drive way so it doesn't get smooshed when they have to pull their car in?

I hope someone points out how incredibly stupid their statements are. "Oh you should test your frogs before you can claim them as pets...I don't know what you will be testing for and because I don't know what you should be testing for, you should only buy a local frog and we should ban the selling of frogs" ..HUH?!?

Candy
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#3
I don`t think it`s as much agenda as it is a lack of understanding of what your actions will cause. It`s never that simple. It`s the one of the same problems we see in congress, a lack of understanding but good intentions. I understand the passion behind saving frogs and I`ve been wrong before when I thought just breeding lots of frogs would save them in captivity. Then I realized what I was doing was becoming a problem from breeding too many frogs myself. The lack of genetics involved to maintain the species was being hindered from me producing frogs that I got from x when he was still breeding the parents. I made it hard for them to keep it worthwhile to breed what I got from them and flooded the market w/ the next generation inbred if they only had one line.
Sorry, I`m in a hurry. I know it`s hard to read.
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile
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#4
It is a short sighted good intention I definately agree. But what makes that become a law is people who jump on the bandwagon who have other reasons for doing so.
Candy
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#5
I agree.
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile
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#6
I'll be back to this one after I read their site thoroughly.


Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#7
Shoot, you can`t even read the thread. The site is really hard to navigate but go to AWARDS and you`ll see the list on enacting legislation to regulate the pet trade. They state they want to make sure all amphibians are tested to be "disease free" but then states we have no tests for the next pandemic or a lot of the virus` etc. out there. The next logical statement would be the banning of owning amphibians as pets since we can`t test for all the disease out there. What makes me worried is in that thread he wouldn't answer the question when posed to him, and said a statement would be forthcoming when his paper came out as it states recommendations on the next pandemic.

Here is the statement that set me off:
In response to FrogFarm, my previous post clearly and explicitly references several well-cited and well-written papers from well-respected journals detailing multiple threats to the mountain yellow frog. FrogFarm, do you know that chytrid is spread by the human movement of amphibians? If you own a frog farm, what steps do you take to ensure that you are not a contributor to the problem? What percent of amateurs and professionals involved in the trade or shipment of amphibians test every single amphibian for every known amphibian disease? None. Is it possible to test for diseases that we have yet to identify? No. Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis, causative agent of chytridiomycosis, which in terms of biodiversity loss is the worst disease ever recorded, was not discovered until 1998; I often wonder how many other emerging infectious diseases are currently being shipped around the world unbeknownst to even those people who love frogs, as I’m sure you do. Have either TreeWalkers, AmphibianArk or any other conservation organization infiltrated every single pet store in America, China, Indonesia and India with sufficient information regarding such issues? I will guess that they have not.
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile
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#8
That scares me Aaron.
I plan on checking it all out in-depth tomorrow.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#9
I thought some checking up was already done,and interesting thins were discovered, like he claims to be a non profit org, but isn't registered with any of the proper channels to be so, and some more besides. I would have to look back on the thread from db
think, it aint illegal yet
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#10
I can't get on the Board, can someone link the web site in question? Thanks.
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#11
http://www.savethefrogs.com/
Candy
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#12
Unfortunately I do not have the time to dissect that website. It almost looks like he is advertising for a flee market and not a conservation effort. Overwhelming "flash" and trinkets being peddled.
I think at times the more of these websites out there, the less people can go to one well run , already established effort and make a difference.
But, not knowing of his intentions, all I can say it there is a balance that can be struck between raping the Earths forests for pet trade and closing down all imports and exports.
I am obviously all for testing, but am not about to step up and mandate anything along those lines. I tell people to "test" and know of (and utilize) a number of different tests . I do not boycott or ostracize fellow froggers who do not test, but rather explain their options and hope they will try to get as much health information as possible. I run certains tests on all frogs I acquire no matter who I get my frogs from, so mandated tests would add nothing to my normal routine.
I am obviously against closing down imports and know of many species that can and are being responsibly harvested. if this were to stop I would be very unhappy.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#13
What other tests do you have run on your frogs besides fecals? Would you recommend everyone have these other tests run on their frogs. I have only heard of testing the frogs fecal.
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#14
Necropsies (for more info on "what went wrong"), quarantine (viewing for noticeable issues) and Chytrid tests in certain cases.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#15
Fecals - check
QT - check
Necropsies - have not had the need for one yet
Chytrid tests - what would be the signs to look for that warrant the need for this test?

Candy
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#16
Right now , with the situation in the wild, I would want to test any WCs. And any frogs of great value.
They may show no signs until certain triggers occur. Cold temps being one.
I don't have a list a specific signs of Chytrid at easy access right now.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Like Reply
#17
If theyre asymptomatic there are none.
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile
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