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Tiny lump on side of Citronella
#1
Guys this is our citronella male,i have had him in a simple QT set up for a month,he absolutly hated it,spent all his time climbing the walls trying to get out.So I have moved him and his lady as he was losing weight.In the present absense of a vet to take samples from locally here in the uk(although i am endevouring to find someone that can nail fecals here) i have wormed the pair. Twice as per directed by guys over herewith more knowledge than I. He has been in his viv for about 6 days now,first day he stopped climbing and fed more,second day he looked too week to support himself,now he looks considerably better he is able to jump well feeding as well as we have ever seen him,and comes to investigate when we come in the room or when we mist. Whils he was feeding today we noticed a little lump just behind his front leg joint on his one side,see photo. Is this just his food travelling through his gut,it appears to move but of coure the food just eaten or gut movements could cause this,or could this be something more synaster. as i say he is a bit under weight i feel i don't think i could see this with his lady
[Image: IMG_2445.jpg]
sorry if its not the best shot in the world but its not always visable,it depends on his position,i would say this is internal,ie not on his skin.
Thankyou so much,both for this help and all the rest
regards
Stu
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#2
The nematodes I've seen associated with darts have been more on the back area and appear just underneath the skin. If you look hard and long enough, you will see the worm move around as it shifts around in there. Not saying that you are dealing with a worm in this case....just telling you the extent of my experience with subcut worms.

Are the Tincs wild caught ?

Can the person you got them from, give you a complete history of them ?

I know you're having a hard time finding a vet near you. There's a good chance that the lump is nothing to be concerned about and the frog will live a long life.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#3
Philsuma Wrote:The nematodes I've seen associated with darts have been more on the back area and appear just underneath the skin. If you look hard and long enough, you will see the worm move around as it shifts around in there. Not saying that you are dealing with a worm in this case....just telling you the extent of my experience with subcut worms.

Are the Tincs wild caught ?

Can the person you got them from, give you a complete history of them ?

I know you're having a hard time finding a vet near you. There's a good chance that the lump is nothing to be concerned about and the frog will live a long life.
To the best of my knowledge they come from peruvian frog import and are captive bred,I don't really feel in anyway ready for WC and at presant don't see any reason to buy wild caught when there are so many captive bred available although only limited reourses of captive bred here but this will change i'm sure, most of our frogs are comming over from germany holland and the US i would much rather work with captive bred . Would the dose of panacur repeated twice at a week spacing, kill all families of worm,i had not read of subcut worms before.
Phil the frog is in my humble beginners opinion getting stronger now each day both of us are watching him intently i would be surpised if i lost him now,a few days ago i definitely thought he wouldn't make the morning,his whole demeanour is changing!! He was actually feeding when we saw this.
Iknow of citronellas here but i don't know of anyone breeding them yet,well i haven't seen any advertised anywhere,all seem youngish frogs.
Thankyou for your prompt response,you have no idea how much this site has helped us,coupled with your personal thoughts,inspiration and encouragement,ha and the odd smile
fair play to you SIR
huge regards
Stu
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#4
Thanks for the kind words Stu - Always appreciated !

Did the seller of those Cits raise them up himself, from Tadpoles ?

I am in no way comfortable giving any sort of advice on wormers / panacur - sorry.

Glad to see he is eating and more energetic. I would feed and dust with supps a little more often than normal. Maybe some FF larvae in a dish as well - get a little extra weight on him to be safe. Keep us posted.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#5
Philsuma Wrote:Thanks for the kind words Stu - Always appreciated !

Did the seller of those Cits raise them up himself, from Tadpoles ?

I am in no way comfortable giving any sort of advice on wormers / panacur - sorry.

Glad to see he is eating and more energetic. I would feed and dust with supps a little more often than normal. Maybe some FF larvae in a dish as well - get a little extra weight on him to be safe. Keep us posted.
kind words deserved nuff said 8)
cant tell you mate they have been moved but where they originate impossible to tell,germany i suspect i did ask,but don't always get clear answers,but i can't just go to a breeder,here unfortunately for lots of frogs,my choce would be very limited though its getting better,new breeds are becomming available from breeders but it all takes time as you know.i.
I appreciate you honesty over the panacur,vets stuff really.
Thanks we are feeding them heavily,she will get a bit fat i guess but they aren't full grown yet so am not to concearned i can ration later! thanks again mate of course i'll let you know what happens ...all goes into the learning curve
regards
Stu
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#6
Stu, how about e-mailing Dr. Frye. He responds quickly and has helped me on several occasions with questions on my frogs.
dr.frye.dvm@sbcglobal.net
-Beth
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#7
BcsTx Wrote:Stu, how about e-mailing Dr. Frye. He responds quickly and has helped me on several occasions with questions on my frogs.
dr.frye.dvm@sbcglobal.net
Thanks Beth,i think it might be part of the gut,and visable because he's underweight,i reckon i can see similar on the female but its hard to tell and i am such a novice,these are our only tincs at present,so i cannot make the comparison with other frogs,truely greatful for your time and the link to Dr frye,i wish he lived in England!! Is this Rich Frye whom takes the awsome pics?
regards
Stu
Ps mr citronella seems good today,i am just back in from work(ha and the state didn't take my job which has been messing with me 8) ) and we are just about to feed,everyday he will improve now,he has to i have told him :roll: i will tell more after feeding,see how he responds.
ok i didn't get to post have fed: they both have this little lump,now utterly convinced its part of the gut,he is feeding as well as i have ever seen,have a stare at your frogs guys,with a frog facing away left side as in the pic,i will still contact Dr frye
thanks again...this is turning into a good day methinks.....i will tell more on the room thread
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#8
Dr. Frye is Rich's brother. Smile
Hope all is well with your frog Stu.
-Beth
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#9
BcsTx Wrote:Dr. Frye is Rich's brother. Smile
Hope all is well with your frog Stu.
Ahh gotcha,message sent Beth thanks again,i don't know nuffin but i really think a corner has been turned,thanks mate for your thoughts
Stu
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#10
Stu&Shaz Wrote:Is this just his food travelling through his gut,it appears to move but of coure the food just eaten or gut movements could cause this,or could this be something more synaster.
[Image: IMG_2445.jpg]
sorry if its not the best shot in the world but its not always visable,it depends on his position,i would say this is internal,ie not on his skin.
Thankyou so much,both for this help and all the rest
regards
Stu

Hey Stu

We have lots of Tincs and see this when we feed a frog that's a little underweight a big meal. I believe that's it's a muscle contracting. The first time we noticed this was with and underweight cit. I think it's the light yellow that really brings it out. Since then we paid more attention to the darker Tincs and we see exactly the same thing after a big meal.

Best
Glenn
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#11
frogfreak Wrote:
Stu&Shaz Wrote:Is this just his food travelling through his gut,it appears to move but of coure the food just eaten or gut movements could cause this,or could this be something more synaster.
[Image: IMG_2445.jpg]
sorry if its not the best shot in the world but its not always visable,it depends on his position,i would say this is internal,ie not on his skin.
Thankyou so much,both for this help and all the rest
regards
Stu

Hey Stu

We have lots of Tincs and see this when we feed a frog that's a little underweight a big meal. I believe that's it's a muscle contracting. The first time we noticed this was with and underweight cit. I think it's the light yellow that really brings it out. Since then we paid more attention to the darker Tincs and we see exactly the same thing after a big meal.
Ahh Glen thanks ,my long standing stockmans eyes coupled with Shaz's says this too,but when your starting out,one always fears the worst,i really think we might have this one going the right way,mate you made what has already been a good day,bloody brilliant!!! As novices to darts but with keeping birds to a pretty extreme level,the observation side is applicable one just cant interpret what one is seeing,but his behaviour says volumes.Glen i am so glad we moved him when we did,a couple more days and dread me thinks
thankyou thankyou thankyou
Stu

Best
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#12
Welcome Stu Smile

I really like to add a ton of springtails when a frog is not doing so well. We recently picked out a pair of Azureus that were in a 90g with 7 other smurfs. We brought them home and put them in a 15g QT tank. The male stopped eating almost instantly. He didn't like the move and/or the smaller tank. He started to lose weight and wasn't even interested in flies. We started just loading the tank with springs and sure enough he was picking away at them. A few days later he was taking flies again.
Glenn
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#13
frogfreak Wrote:Welcome Stu Smile

I really like to add a ton of springtails when a frog is not doing so well. We recently picked out a pair of Azureus that were in a 90g with 7 other smurfs. We brought them home and put them in a 15g QT tank. The male stopped eating almost instantly. He didn't like the move and/or the smaller tank. He started to lose weight and wasn't even interested in flies. We started just loading the tank with springs and sure enough he was picking away at them. A few days later he was taking flies again.
Ha Glen smurfs= azzie= nice i like that 8)
great tip Glen much appreciated er i did exactly that :lol: chucked loads of cultured and a wild stock we have,he'd pic at them as they hit the floor,but hell there was no way he would settle in that QT tub,i have read of some guys experiancing similar so i guess was slightly forwarned but so so appreciate the help and advice,we have done alot of homework on this Glen it is a VERY big deal in our house,this is why i am so greatful for your help and wise words,although we got the springs tip already we did not know of this lump and your help will make us sleep easier tonight. Also this will help other guys new like us,and their frogs
good on ya Sir
proper greatful
Stu
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#14
too soon for a proper update but little man feeding well and i think starting to gain abit of weight,ha i will always be big on thanks,not won yet but ....getting there
thanks to all
regards guys
Stu
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#15
Glad to hear this Stu. You'll pull the frog through it....no doubt.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#16
Philsuma Wrote:Glad to hear this Stu. You'll pull the frog through it....no doubt.
ta Phil it wont be for lack of trying,just wish for more experiance in these times.Mate they are adoreable they actually come out to see us,mysties just ignore us, i can put my head in their viv they just carry on about their business :lol: ,auratus hide or have reservations,these and 2 of the leucs respond to us actually being in the room,ah mate you know all this stuff, we cherish these moments.We so hope we win this!!
cheers mate his chances are so much better for your graft on this site
Stu
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#17
as a way of thanks,i think we have this one sorted here ya go the guys topping up
[Image: IMG_2470.jpg]
[Image: IMG_2469.jpg]
[Image: IMG_2460.jpg]
thanks folks
regards
Stu
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#18
Congrats guys!

What a difference a couple of weeks can make!

Cits always look better a wee bit on the chunky side. Big Grin
Glenn
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#19
frogfreak Wrote:Congrats guys!

What a difference a couple of weeks can make!

Cits always look better a wee bit on the chunky side. Big Grin
Frightening isn't it Glen,so quick up or down,especially as a novice, lots of varied grub going down them, i think alot of the weight gain might be down to greenfly,he doesn't have to chase these down so hard,but he is absolutly a different frog than before we are so chuffed thanks for the help mate!!!
regards
Stu
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