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WC Frogs for sale at Frog Day 2011 ?
#1
Someone has said Wild Caught Frogs were displayed for sale at Frog Day 2011 - which should be a 100% Captive Born only show.

Who was the vendor selling them ?

Please post here so all that can see it.

If you don't feel comfortable doing so...please PM me the info and I will keep you anonymous.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#2
I didn't see any WC frogs and I visited every table
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#3
Mine were kept in the hotel room...have witnesses too


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#4
Yeah, I think that guy was referring to you and those Tincs.

My personal take on selling / vending is, if you buy a Table, support the show, donate to the auction, attend the dinner and lectures....THEN....you should be able to sell some WC animals to other vendors and hobbyists as long as it's not in the main show area for the public.

Does anyone know the Official policy - or if there was one ?

^^^ THIS is something that They should nail down (policy) in writing soon, for the 2012 show, IMO.
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#5
Ok...now, I'm hearing it was WC O.pumilio.......

Certainly not me.

Hmmmm.....
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#6
Philsuma Wrote:Ok...now, I'm hearing it was WC O.pumilio.......

Certainly not me.

Hmmmm.....

There were none I saw...the black jeans and grannies were CB


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#7
Question, how would one even know ? Its based 100% on the word of the seller. If it is against "policy" and they brought wild caught in, then, obviously they wouldn't have a problem lying about it. If its not against policy, then they haven't done anything in violation of those policies ? Not that I'm making lite of anything or trying to poo-poo something, not trying to be a dick either, I just don't see an issue? A wild caught frog is a wild caught frog, whether the venue is online, or at a show ?

Educate me, never been to frog day, probably never will with my life (or lack there of) the way it isSmile. Or is it strictly because it was frog day? Ive seen sponsors on the other forum with wild caught pums at a show before, openly stating that they were wild caught. Again, not trying to sound dickish, note the intentional use of lower-case letters.

Derek
1.5 kids and a bunch of frogs
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#8
Derek,

Not completely sure on Frog Day, but International Amphibian Day (IAD) tries VERY hard to be conservation oriented and seeks to raise awareness and even monies for habitat preservation and other conservation efforts.

That said, it would be a slap in the face to such efforts, if people were to traffic Wild Caught animals, would it not ? Even covertly.

As to who would know the difference ? Most people that have been in the hobby for a good length of time and/ or dealt with wild caught animals and captive born, should be able to tell the difference - rose rubs, lesions, abrasions, dead skin, Dermal nematodes, ect .

The high profile / conservation oriented show are literally trying to be "better" or at least more responsible than the other run-of-the-mill Reptile shows.

Does that make sense ?>
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#9
This is what I meant in the tattling post when I said there wasn't enough. Somebody makes an accusation and doesn't name the person and then everyone starts asking the person to PM them on who it was.
I thought Frog Day was all about conservation. Isn't that where all the money went to for the auctions?
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#10
Yep. Frog Day is about conservation.

People are still afraid to name names....you know how it is. I've only heard from 2 different people - both of which have 2nd hand info, in other words, they did not go up to the vendor and handle the frogs or talk to the vendor and ask, so this info and the vendor name can't be posted here until I can verify it without a doubt.

and yes, Jeff....I agree with you here. If this becomes a fact, it should be posted and I WILL post it.
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#11
I just got a PM about Mantellas at Frog Day.

I did not see any. I could have missed them, just like the Tree Frogs...so.....does anyone know if Mantellas were displayed for sale and if they were all Captive Born or not ?
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#12
Was there anything in the vendor rules that specified captive bred only? Judging from past Frog Days I do think that WC were allowed. Also looking at the mission statement " American Frog Day: Is an annual event focused on assisting scientific study and captive maintenance of Dendrobatid frogs and other amphibians through the exchange of knowledge, and the promotion of captive breeding and husbandry of these remarkable frogs (and other amphibians). I do not see a conflict.
I would think that rules for American Frog Day should be dictated by founding members and/or by those organizing the events and not so much by forums. A lot of money was raised for amphibian conservation by this event, perhaps we should just be very happy with that.

Sally
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#13
Philsuma Wrote:Yep. Frog Day is about conservation.

People are still afraid to name names....you know how it is. I've only heard from 2 different people - both of which have 2nd hand info, in other words, they did not go up to the vendor and handle the frogs or talk to the vendor and ask, so this info and the vendor name can't be posted here until I can verify it without a doubt.

and yes, Jeff....I agree with you here. If this becomes a fact, it should be posted and I WILL post it.

This is what bothers me. If you're going to accuse someone say it. I guess it goes back to Toxicaddictions add on DB when somebody called him out for selling wild caught as captive bred and the posts were deleted. Too much hiding and protecting.
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#14
Jeff,

I can't speak for all the people that PM and email me information as to why they do, or do not post openly ect.

I think you should be able to tell, that once I confirm something, there will be no deleting posts, hiding or protecting (see my contributions to the Blue Jeans theft and related threads / B.O.I ).

I can't speak for why others choose not to post or even be vicitmized and not fight back.....everyone has reasons. I'm not going to post a name or occurance 2nd or 3rd hand unless it can be verified.

International Amphibian Day (IAD) and the Mid Atlantic Reptile Show (MARS) are both Captive Bred animals only and they raised lots of money for various conservation efforts. I didn't see a vendor packet and just now, checking the Website again, reveals no indication as to CB or WC.

Personally, I would hope that Frog Day 2012 in Chicago is an all CB show. That policy alone is a strong statement about conservation and rewarding hard working hobbyists efforts.
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#15
Ray posted some pics of mantellas over at db. I know that he breeds some mantellas, but it isn't mentioned what these were.
Tim
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#16
For what it is worth, I would rather have WC animals allowed so that a vendor does not try to pass wild caught off as captive bred just to skirt the rules. It is unfortunate that these type of people exist but I think there is a better chance of the frogs being labeled correctly if they are not banned.
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#17
jellyman Wrote:For what it is worth, I would rather have WC animals allowed so that a vendor does not try to pass wild caught off as captive bred just to skirt the rules. It is unfortunate that these type of people exist but I think there is a better chance of the frogs being labeled correctly if they are not banned.

The "business" on the other Forum that got caught misrepresenting WC pumilio as CB took a HUGE hit to his reputation / character and hopefully, pocket book. I am thinking we won't see him around much longer and if we do, he will be struggling.

I'd like to think that before we have to accommodate Wild Caught Frogs, we are united and strong enough to be able to hold 1-2 Captive Born only shows out of 60 a year.....
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#18
It STILL amazes me that people who have been in the hobby for long periods of time ( one specific rat , over a decade) can not understand two simple words...sustainable harvest.
If the WCs fall under those two words there's nothing (excepting cutting down trees to collect arborea) going against "conservation", rather new blood is helping our hobby.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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#19
...and, what's the difference between buying WC at a show or via mail or pick-up at a warehouse Phil?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#20
He's on the extreme side of the bar. I would bet my collection that there are no more than 5% of PDF hobbyist who are against a sustainable / responsible import.

I thought the point of the ONE or TWO shows a year, that deal heavily with Conservation and Awareness was to at least portray to the attending public that ALL the frogs on table were CB and the fruits of the hobby labour ect...and to say "look, you too can breed frogs" . That type of thing.

Now...some WC frogs in the hotel away from the venue....

Is that wrong and hypocritical ^^^ seriously, I won't be offended. I'm just trying to make sense of the Organization and effort.
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