What's a Good beginner Dart Frog - This one ?

[thelifespark]

I'm hoping to get my vivarium started soon and have my first pair of darts by my birthday or shortly thereafter at the end of August. What are the best Poison Dart Frogs for beginners? I read that the D. tincorious "azureus" were good beginner Frogs and I think they're just gorgeous. I thought I read about another species too but I can't remember and I wondered if there were any others that anyone could recommend. I really fell in love with this gorgeous sort of purple species (pic) but am unsure if they are considered a good beginner Dart Frog.


Gorgeous, isn't it?

Also...I'm trying to figure out how to get started - what size tank should I use and how do I go about keeping the humidity and temperature right. My mom has a snake...ball python...and she has the darndest time keeping his tank warm enough.

[kristy55303]

Dendrobates tincotrious "azureus" morph are good beginner frogs, they are very bold and active. Dendrobates auratus are also good, they can be housed in groups - downside, some can be shy depending on morph. Dendrobates leucomelas are another favorite of mine, they are very bold, utilize the whole vivarium and have a loud, nice, trilling call. They can also be maintained well in groups. kristy

[RichFrye]

The pic is , BTW, either a Darkland, Cauchero, or Esperanza pumilio from Panama.
Gorgeous yes, not a good frog to start out with though.

Rich

[kristy55303]

that is a beautiful dart...and know they are not for beginners. Definatey more fragile right? just curious cuz i have been interested in getting my first pums, which would you recommend? recommend , i mean.... to me and others on this board once they have more experience with say tinc sized darts and thumbnails?

Question again: as it is so beautiful.... but does that pic look like it has a blister on its knee, or is that just from normal coloration ? I have been offered some caucheros( could you post a pic of yours...I know you have some great site specific pums :wink: ) Do they look like that ? Such beautiful purple coloration. Perhaps I should ask the breeder for a pic as I denied being interested at the time, but pumilios like that one in the pic are just gorgeous and would contrast against the broms and greenery in the vivarium so very well.

kristy

[RichFrye]

Question again: as it is so beautiful.... but does that pic look like it has a blister on its knee, or is that just from normal coloration ? I have been offered some caucheros( could you post a pic of yours...I know you have some great site specific pums :wink: ) Do they look like that ? Such beautiful purple coloration. Perhaps I should ask the breeder for a pic as I denied being interested at the time, but pumilios like that one in the pic are just gorgeous and would contrast against the broms and greenery in the vivarium so very well.

kristy


I would not say that adults are more fragile, but raising froglet to adulthood has been a big issue for many out there. I always recommend site specific pums. Best guess pumilos do nothing but add to the mutting of our frogs in this hobby. Something we can all do without.
The frogs looks fine to me. I don't see what i would call a blister. Pums tend to look like that, often.
I don't keep Caucheros. I have Darklands. It looks to me to be more of a lighting issue than the frog actually being purple.

On a side note. I thought you had to sell all of your collection Kristy? I know you sold a bunch. But then I see you buying a bunch more right away.The reason I bring it up is that I tend to shy away from froggers who buy my frogs and then turn right around and sell them to someone I may not find to be the best owners.

Rich

[kristy55303]

i had my surgery...minimally invasive...not much to talk about other than it went better than expected. if something did go wrong as my husband does not know proper husbandry or even how to mist or feed the darts... and wasnt sure so i needed good homes so i did sell my collection. miss them actually. i have acquired some more darts and i have a few extra pairs i would rather sell and get something a little different. Only to those experienced of course with darts or i'll just keep as i love leucs.

site specific pums i would agree are the best option with you there. saw your ad for site specific pums. knw you have a lot of experience with them to say the least. thanks, kristy

[thelifespark]

well I'll keep that in mind then about pums...maybe in a few years when I have more space and experience.

[kristy55303]

yes... pums are for the more intermediate as rich said. i would consider him very very experienced with pums, professional breeder by all means.

starting out with something tinc sized...keep in mind tincs need to be in pairs usually or auratus or leucs would be the best option as they are hardy and more forgiving to mistakes. Hopefully, no mistakes will be made :wink: but yes having the viv up and ready while you are quaranting them is the best option and to seed it with springtails. springtails give the darts a little treat, but more importantly also are natural decomposers. Just like live plants are a must, I think springtails are a must.

joshsfrogs.com has some good springtail starter cultures to get going. all you do is feed them a pinch of yeast every 3+ days....and keep the distilled water level above an inch, and they will reproduce really well. then just drain off the springtails into the viv, and there will still be some left in the culture to reproduce and add more distilled water usually up to 1.5 inches and keep feeding sprinkled bakers yeast. Atleast this is what i do.

for quarantine protocols, I would check out dendroboard.com's asn quarantining protocols to give you an idea. you'll need to do more than one fecal to make sure of their health. also keep in mind that things like viruses etc do not show up in fecals, parasites can shed at different intervals( the need to refecal after a while in q-tine)
kristy

[thelifespark]

okay wait what are springtails? and do I just put those in the tank and let them...roam...I mean they don't need to be contained like the ff for instance? And as for quarentine....do I do that in a seperate tank while the viv settles and how long should I quarentine for?

Sorry I'm full of questions but I appreciate all the advice and suggestions...

I was thinking of starting with D. azureus....those were a good starting breed right? are they as good as the others you mentioned? like auratus or tincs or leucs? Oh...and do I bring the fecal samples to the vet? Or is there somewhere I should send them off to?

[kristy55303]

quarantine should be for a minimum two months...optimal three. even from professional dart breeders. Springtails are very small white bugs...i dont know the science around it lol it was the only answer i could come up with. they help the viv and also the darts will relish them from time to time for a treat. natural decomposers. just look at joshsfrogs.com and check it out. but keep in mind that meloganaster:easiest and then there are hydei...a bit harder and longer to culture..i'd start out with melos as azureus love them. joshsfrogs sell excellent startere culture kits for meloganaster ff with instructions. you'll learn and get a hand of it. Azureus was my first dart frog. They are both active, bold, do climb some as well...and also they are hardy for beginners and in saying that......they can be very prolific when they breed. kristy

[thelifespark]

Okay so quarentine in a seperate tank for two to three months....something more simple than a whole viv, I'm assuming? And while the viv is settling and I put the springtails in so I just put them in once and there will still be some in a few months?

[kristy55303]

"okay wait what are springtails? and do I just put those in the tank and let them...roam...I mean they don't need to be contained like the ff for instance? And as for quarentine....do I do that in a seperate tank while the viv settles and how long should I quarentine for?

Sorry I'm full of questions but I appreciate all the advice and suggestions...

I was thinking of starting with D. azureus....those were a good starting breed right? are they as good as the others you mentioned? like auratus or tincs or leucs? Oh...and do I bring the fecal samples to the vet? Or is there somewhere I should send them off to?"

yes just let the springtails roam among the substrate and leaf litter. most people use 190 oz tubs that can be found on joshsfrogs for quarantine . one per container....some sphagnum moss...pothos leaves bleached with 1 parts bleach ten parts water...15 second dip....rinse well....put in a place with low activity around the house. seed those with springs too as the moss will have to be changed every 2-3 weeks this way. provide a makeshift cocohut or a cocohut for a hiding spot.
yes do it in a separate quarantine container. no quarantine in the viv. the point is to not infect the viv. dr.frye can run fecals for 18.00 i believe...not per frog but per group. he is very nice to deal with. And can answer all of your questions.

did i forget anything? oh the springs will multiply in your viv. just let roam . they are very tiny.
kristy

[thelifespark]

Thank you so much You've been so awfully helpful. So I just get the 190 oz tubs...one frog per tub with a little moss and bleached leaves....a hut....and just a simple bowl of water...

Just one more question for right now How many times a day ought i feed them? And (well I guess it's a question in two parts) should I just put the ff when I feed in a cup or bowl? One site I read suggested a piece of fruit to keep the ff in one area but I don't know if that would really be better than a small bowl or something.

[kristy55303]

I pm'd you. check it lol

ok yes..no need for water bowl..just mist so it is wet in the tubs and the sides of the tubs are also an indicator of good humidity. the sphagnum....you can get also at joshsfrogs. wet it and saturate pretty good but not over wet where you can see water accumulating if that makes sense with springwater is what i use. if you go the route of a huge sterilite sweater box then a piece of fruit will keep the ff at bay.....but i just weigh down the tops of those....190 0z tubs good option. many professional dart breeders use them for all darts. the 190 0z tubs are completely ff proof so they will work well. check your pm. kristy

[thelifespark]

Ehhh....sorry but I just thought of another questions (I seem to have more all the time...feel free to smack me whenever lol) umm...I've figured out by now with all my reading that you have to dust your ff and other food with vitamins and/or calcium etc...and I wondered if there was a particular brand that was best...

[kristy55303]

you will need to feed the darts every day is a good thing. missing a day or two for a vacation wont hurt. as for the suppliments......you need the pink labeled repcal and the blue labeled herpivite on joshsfrogs.com or can be found at petsmart etc. just remember pink and blue label. i mix them 1:1 ratio right away. you will need to dust the fruitflies to avoid calcium deficiency in darts and death from it. they only last 6 months once opened. i put them in a ziplock container the sandwich sized ones with the blue lids. after 6 months, they start to degrade. kristy

[Philsuma]

Dusted off another Interesting thread with a Spectacular Photograph of a Oophaga pumilio morph, most likey from somewhere in the Aguacate locale, Panama.

Photo appears to be taken by Thomas Ostrowski of Hanover Germany, who started the vaunted website: Dendrobase.

It does look well flash-lit or possbly a little shopped, but not overly done IMO. It's excellent.

If anyone can further credit or explain the morph, please post up.