What species can you mix?

[DartAddiction88]

Hi, I've had a dart tank for about 4 months now. I currently have a 40 breeder with 2 florescent lights, false bottom set up. I have (3) D. Auratus (one blue, one green, one black/white) and (1) D. Azureus. I've bought all my supplies (Terra lite substrate, Dendro bedding) and a variety of plants from black jungle. I have been very pleased with the ease of maintaining this tank. I'm on a budget so I've been slowly adding frogs because their so friggin expensive in south FL lol. Heres my question though, I want to upgrade to a 75g tank. I want to be able to keep 2-3 species each together in the 75g if possible. D. Auratus, D. Azureus, D. Leucomelas, D. Tinctorius, and D. Pumilio. Will I be able to keep all these in a 75g without aggression between the species? And if not, are their a few that I listed that are compatible? Any suggestions?

[ChrisK]

OK you just opened up a can of worms my friend. I suggest you search for posts/threads by users Rich Frye and Jellyman in the General section here on mixed enclosures/hybrids and spend a good amount of time reading about it, also read what it says in Rich's signature in his posts. Here are couple to start with:

http://www.dartden.com/viewtopic.php?t=3731

http://www.dartden.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... highlight=

[evolvstll]

I am glad that you are asking so you can get heading in the right direction. Let me get this right.................you have 3 different auratus and an azureus in the same tank. Sound like you have already mixed..........read like the above thread said........you can also search my same screen name over on DB for threads dealing with hybrids.
In short you are new to the hobby so do not mix and keep what you can afford.

[DartAddiction88]

Thank you both for the information. However I will have to do more research on keeping multiple species, from what the articles referred to, was only on disappointments in breeding mixed species. But honestly, frogs in the wild must run into each other all the time so how do we really know that 2 different frogs mated to make a species that we discovered before this became an issue?...just my 2 cents. Let me say that I have no intention on breeding these mixed species. I just want something different to look at...I mean come on, I dont see how someone could be content in having a 40g or bigger and stare at all the same species. Thats just me. I need different colors. If I had a 20g this probably wouldnt be an issue :wink:
From what I have seen and heard, mixing species usually goes smoothly if the housing is large enough for the amount of frogs added. I'm new at this, and I hope to always be a learner in this field no matter how long I've had experience with them. Any other thoughts or suggestions to back up this issue either way?

[DartAddiction88]

Alright I did a little bit of research. Most of the sites i checked did not recommend mixing species. However I did find that Saurian Enterprises, has a section on each care sheet about compatibility for that species in housing it with others. All seemed to be compatible except for mixing D. Azureus with any morph of D. Tinctorius. Another reason given is that "tincs" are more aggressive eaters compared to some shy auratus and that it would cause stress between them, says another site. I'm beginning to want to keep 1 species and I'm leaning towards "Tincs"....would their be any problem with getting all "tincs" just different color morphs??? Also, my other choice would be D. Pomilio, can anyone describe their difficulty in maintaining them, or temperament?

[ChrisK]

It would actually be worse to get different morphs of tincs together than tincs and pumilio for example, because there would almost definitely be hybrids produced which is definitely something you would want to steer clear of - mixing is something that really should be left to the people with like 10 plus years of experience, and tremendously sized tanks. Pumilio are great frogs but you should probably wait till you get some experience with darts in general, they're a little more skittish, fragile and shy than most tinc type frogs and strangely they require a lot more space.

[ChrisK]

Thank you both for the information. However I will have to do more research on keeping multiple species, from what the articles referred to, was only on disappointments in breeding mixed species. But honestly, frogs in the wild must run into each other all the time so how do we really know that 2 different frogs mated to make a species that we discovered before this became an issue?...just my 2 cents. Let me say that I have no intention on breeding these mixed species. I just want something different to look at...I mean come on, I dont see how someone could be content in having a 40g or bigger and stare at all the same species. Thats just me. I need different colors. If I had a 20g this probably wouldnt be an issue :wink:
From what I have seen and heard, mixing species usually goes smoothly if the housing is large enough for the amount of frogs added. I'm new at this, and I hope to always be a learner in this field no matter how long I've had experience with them. Any other thoughts or suggestions to back up this issue either way?

They might "run into" each other in nature, but being stuck in a small glass box together for life is a totally different story.

Re: 40 gallon - a friend of mine keeps a pair of pumilio in a 40 gallon and after observing, says it's too small.

[evolvstll]

Be patient................make a wish list................aquire in that order as you have the money and room.
In the wild? Population concepts of niches, competition, speciation, geographical isolation, geological time..............
Mixed tanks are frowned upon. You want to mix pumilio with a tinc or auratus or such? With pumilio you need a good soil full of little bugs with lots of leaf liter. They do not stay up in the tank, they venture down to feed.
If you want a lot of frogs, as this hobby is addicting............be patient and aquire what you have the space, time, and money for. As it is you should have your auratus and azureus all in different tanks...................
Here are some links...................read.................


Flat out breeding or not do not mix. Be patient, build the tanks before you get the frogs. Put only like frogs with like frogs............example
each frog type has differernt morphs...........only keep like morphs together...............]
-auratus - each of your types should be in different tanks. There are different green and blacks: panamanian should not be mixed with costa rican nor mixed with nicaraguan (sp) or with blue and black etc
-Azureus and any type of tinc should be kept in different tanks.............azureus only with azureues, alanis with alanis, yellowbacks with yellowbacks, cits with cits, nikitas with nikitas, powder blues with powder blues..........etc
-thumbs: Tricolors: salvias with salvias; santa isabela with santa isabela..........etc
-lamasi: p. lamasi with p. lamasi: orange with orange; green leg with green leg
Pumilio: same format: nancy with nancy; el dorado with el dorado; cayos with cayos etc...............

[DartAddiction88]

Alright you convinced me. Or else I think everyone else on here would throw eggs at me for mixing lol jk. I have kept da. auratus for 4 months now and have some idea of their behavior and requirements. However auratus seems to be the standard frog for anyone starting and I would prefer to have something a little out of the ordinary. So, Iamb going to either separate my existing frogs, or take them back to my local source. I believe I'm going with "tincs" only now, 1 color morph. I hear that, they like D. Azureus, have bold personalities are very active. Any suggestions on how many I could house comfortably in my 40g breeder? Would 5 be too many? And if I am going with the same species, I might as well attempt to breed them so is 5 too many for that scenario? I also heard that "tincs" are the 2nd largest color morph species which is another reason why once I search, their will be a lot more choices compared in the color morphs of D. auratus. But I'm still only keeping 1 color morph.

[evolvstll]

Keeping Azureus ideally if in a 10 or 40 gallon a pair. You could try a 2.1.0 . just keep an eye as always on aggression.
Keeping other tincs usually keep a pair also. Soime have luck with 2.1.0 while some say after a while that they need to remove one of the males due to fighting.
In my experience you can keep leucs in a group, you really need to watch for females egg eating. I have better success with 1.1.0 and 2.1.0 leuc groupings.
If you want to keep a group your best bet are the auratus. Just ensure they are all the same morph. There have been some panamanian auratus listed. With keeping multiple frogs just put multiple sites for egg deposits. Film canisters and coco huts with petri dishes.,
Another group frog is the galac. Although for a first frog they are easy, just not very bold. I know herpetologic.net had some on another site listed: reds and oranges.

Good luck and keep us updated

[MELLOWROO421]

Also, just to clarify... Azureus is a "D. tinc" and is just a separate color morph as is powder blue, cobalt, new river, etc.
Like evolvstll said, tincs do not make good group frogs often times regardless of tank size. Darts can and do go from apparently healthy and active to border line dead or dead in a matter of just a day or 2, usually due to stresses we fail to recognize until it is too late. This is another good reason mixing or overcrowding is a bad idea.
A 40 breeder is a good size tank for a pair of azureus'.
On a side note based on experience, I kept a trio of tincs in a 40 breeder with no aggression issues, but with no breeding either. Once the 3rd wheel was removed they began to breed. Not saying that people don't have success with trios, but IME pairs do much better.
Leucs, auratus, galacts all would do well in a 75g tank as a group assuming of coarse it is set up properly.
Good luck!

[DartAddiction88]

Thank you both again...I really appreciate your suggestions. Ive decided to trade my 3 auratus frogs in tomorrow I've enjoyed watching them grow, but I'm attracted more to the "tincs" (their coloration, and personality) I'm still debating on keeping the D. Azureus I have and putting (her I think, based on her fullness, and her toe pads are not larger like other males I've seen in posted male pics) in a 20G High I have (and eventually getting a partner for her. I plan on switching out the auratus for 2 tinc cobalts. I'm going to the store tomorrow to take em in. (or, if I dont get as much credit, I'll just get a partner for my D. Azureus) I have also read that 3 tincs is really the maxium for wanting to breed, and 2 is even more ideal if you are able to determine the sex. If anyone else has tips on recognizing D. Auzureus sex or D. Tinctorius sex please let me know. Thanks again

[jorjperov]

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