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General Oophaga pumilio Information
#1
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I've been reading a few pumilio threads and it seems there are a few misunderstandings about them. I'll share a bit of info here.

It is not usually hard to get pumilio to breed. If you have a male and a female, they will most likely , eventually breed.
It is at times difficult to get froglets to adult age. This due to the fact the froglets are tiny and need small food stuffs, lots of it. There are also other factors including male on male fighting when reaching sub-adult range and the need to establish territories.

Males do not transport tads, females do.

Males are not needed to let females know where the females laid their own eggs...

Males are not needed at all to call the female over to feed the tads. Males are actually not needed in the tank after the eggs have been fertilized. At all.

Females in a group environment (i.e. 1:2, 1:3, 1:4 ,ect.) will feed each other's tads.

Females of one morph will feed tads from another morph. Also known as surrogate parenting.

Pumilio will eat and love springtails, and continue to due so when at adult age. Pumilio love springtails, period.

Most male pumilio do not 'like' their mates, and vise versa. Once breeding is done the male goes one way, the female/s another.

Females will lay without the presence of males.

Females will lay in tiny, tiny containers. This does not mean tiny vivs are the way to go. Quite the opposite.

Pumilio, more than most darts , continue to grow far after reaching physical maturity and breeding age.

If you are tank raising pumilio (leaving them in-viv instead of pulling them) it is wise to remove them once they are about half grown . If you have a male sub-adult (smaller than the adult breeding male in-viv) and the alpha males knows it is a male, there is a chance of the alpha beating the younger/smaller male to death.

It is absolutely impossible to tell the morph of a pumilio from pictures alone. Impossible. The possible, possible exception may be escudos, but those are not a real pum either...


That's it for now. I'm sure I'll think of other stuff later.


Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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#2
I would even scratch the Escudo off that list.... frogs on the Valiente peninsula look exactly like the ones on Escudo and even share the same smaller size.

Heres a comparison. first picture is from Escudo the second from the peninsula.
If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it? - Albert Einstein
1.2.0 pumilio (drago colon) 1.1.0 pumilio (Escudo) 0.0.4 M. stelzneri 0.0.2 D. tinc (patricia) 0.1.0 D leucomelas
-Keith
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#3
Thanks, those shots were taken in the field as we were measuring the frogs.. measure a frog... take its picture(or several) let it go and move on to the next one :mrgreen:
If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it? - Albert Einstein
1.2.0 pumilio (drago colon) 1.1.0 pumilio (Escudo) 0.0.4 M. stelzneri 0.0.2 D. tinc (patricia) 0.1.0 D leucomelas
-Keith
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#4
Ha Phil,ok it took a while but we found it!(thanks) Rich why exclude the Escudo? Educate me/us mate(please),i can see there are differences from the wonderful pics in the second post,can you give me more info,as you have seem this with your eyes,are calls different,are you thinking separate species,subspecies? Rich would it be preferable to keep 2 vivs of the same morph right next to each other so the males could hear each other,ie passive conflict would this help with breeding and fertility or be counter productive? You have said that the male is not needed after the eggs have been fertilised do you remove males to a new tank say with a different set of females,or do you always keep your pum pairs together?
Thankyou
regards
Stu
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#5
I wouldnt mind hearing some feedback on this as well...I am gradually going through all the pumilio threads that Phil posted...But I like the questions Stu has asked, and am now curious as well. If you dont mind Rich.
Thanks, TJ
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#6
Escudo have been genetically researched and re-classified as a different species. They do have a different call than most pums, but most pums' calls vary also.
I do not remove males when breeding.
Calling from other tanks may or may not help stimulate breeding, I have no proof , scientific or anecdotal.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#7
RichFrye Wrote:Escudo have been genetically researched and re-classified as a different species. They do have a different call than most pums, but most pums' calls vary also.
I do not remove males when breeding.
Calling from other tanks may or may not help stimulate breeding, I have no proof , scientific or anecdotal.

Rich

Thank you sir! I kinda questioned it just with other species I keep as well. When my male Varadero decides to go nuts, he then stimulates the Lamasi and other imitators to start going off! Then its a crazy musical concert for a good bit. Actually pretty funny! I even play the video from AAAfrogs of his Varadero on You tube and that gets my Varadero to start calling back when I want to hear him on cue. So I am not sure if its coincidental or if it actually helps...Just my situation leans towards it does...but I am not sure.
Thanks, TJ
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#8
just made this a sticky. Good, concise stuff Rich.
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#9
Lets say you have a tad that the parents arent caring for (feeding) can a tad be fed an egg from say ...i dont know ...lets say anthonyi they lay about 30 eggs a clutch. Will the pumilio tad eat the anthonyi egg as a supplement for the unfertile pumilio egg?
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#10
frogs are cool Wrote:Lets say you have a tad that the parents arent caring for (feeding) can a tad be fed an egg from say ...i dont know ...lets say anthonyi they lay about 30 eggs a clutch. Will the pumilio tad eat the anthonyi egg as a supplement for the unfertile pumilio egg?

There's a good chance that if you take the time to feed the tad other dendrobates' unfertilized eggs you can raise them to morphing.
This takes out the issues of is we should use others' eggs or if we should let the parents get it right on their own.
Pumilio tads have been known to eat all kinds of things other than parents' feeder eggs.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#11
RichFrye Wrote:
frogs are cool Wrote:Lets say you have a tad that the parents arent caring for (feeding) can a tad be fed an egg from say ...i dont know ...lets say anthonyi they lay about 30 eggs a clutch. Will the pumilio tad eat the anthonyi egg as a supplement for the unfertile pumilio egg?

There's a good chance that if you take the time to feed the tad other dendrobates' unfertilized eggs you can raise them to morphing.
This takes out the issues of is we should use others' eggs or if we should let the parents get it right on their own.
Pumilio tads have been known to eat all kinds of things other than parents' feeder eggs.
Not sure how i feel on that yet. As of now i just cant see letting a good tad die of starvation if i can be of aide until they get it right.
~Master Yoda

"When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good, you will not, hmmm?"
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#12
Practice makes 'get it right', all things equal. So, if the tank is set up properly then it should only be a matter of time before instinct kicks in.
I can tell you that it is a major pain to try to raise tads from other egg stuffs.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#13
I think the use of the word 'obligate' is a little misleading. We have all seen pumilio larvae consume fruit flies and other 'stuff' that gets into their compartments.They may even acquire some nutrition from algae and micro/bio films.

I think that the egg feeding is the evolutionary process but not the whole ball-of-wax, so to speak. We are seeing numerous people report finding pumilio froglets in vivs long since devoid of their parental frogs, so that means the tadpoles had very little eggs to eat and must have supplemented their nutrition in other ways.
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#14
Philsuma Wrote:I think the use of the word 'obligate' is a little misleading. We have all seen pumilio larvae consume fruit flies and other 'stuff' that gets into their compartments.They may even acquire some nutrition from algae and micro/bio films.

I think that the egg feeding is the evolutionary process but not the whole ball-of-wax, so to speak. We are seeing numerous people report finding pumilio froglets in vivs long since devoid of their parental frogs, so that means the tadpoles had very little eggs to eat and must have supplemented their nutrition in other ways.
Is there be something in the egg that could be helping the tads get an advantage...like colostrum in milk? I have seen a lot of newborn bull calves get pulled at birth (mostly dairy cows) and if they do not get the colostrum from their mother before being placed on milk replacement they do not make it. I know im comparing frogs to cows but hey just an idea.
~Master Yoda

"When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good, you will not, hmmm?"
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#15
Good comments on social behaviour or lack thereof contained in posts above.
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#16
bump for new hobbyist
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