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Tesoros de Columbia -new frogs offered !
#1
http://www.tesorosdecolombia.com/

This is exciting stuff! Animals available now through Black Jungle, Understory Enterprises and more.

The future of this project and future offerings depend on the revenue generated by us buying these frogs. It also depends on us not devaluing them by breeding them is such numbers that Tesoros can no longer be competitive in the marketplace or there is no longer a market for these animals.

I am obtaining a group of black footed terribilis and have no intention of breeding them. I will enjoy them but not breed them. I will pull eggs if they are laid and not raise them. I suggest that if these frogs are bred and sold that the seller maintain reasonable pricing and offer a donation to Tesoros to keep the project on track.

This opportunity is huge for this hobby. We stumble over ourselves scrambling to the next big thing, well frankly, this is it. These are not shady wild caught animals of dubious origin, being passed of as farmed. This is the real deal, site specific, 2nd and 3rd generation captive bred frogs.

I was also fortunate enough to meet Ivan down at SACAS in Costa Rica. He is a very dedicated man to have come this far. Many people told him he was crazy to even try this, crazier after all of this time and money spent trying to change Columbian laws. His friends encouraged him to quit. He persevered. He was able to get the truncatus permits because those are the frogs that are native to his property where he built his facility. (That is why he was able to get that permit first. That was not a conscious choice.) The truncatus came out, they did not sell. Mark Pepper was sitting on 400 at the time of the SACAS meeting. Ivan was distraught. He was almost at his breaking point, wondering if he should quit. We almost lost the opportunity for histrionica, lehmanni, terribilis, Andinobates, Ranitomeya etc.. The positive energy at SACAS seemed to bolster Ivan. (...or the beers, I don't know.) End result, Ivan is working hard to provide us with the frogs of our dreams. Frogs we don't even know about yet. Think about it, there are frogs in the deep, dark, dangerous corners of Columbia that have not been seen by anyone but narcos. This is our pathway to them. Legally. Sustainably. Responsibly.
Teaser.
[img][Image: 1235398_215246571973911_1798646898_n_zpsf92dcfa3.jpg][/img]
Chris Sherman
One big methane burp from the ocean could make everything here obsolete.
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#2
This is awesome.

I can't wait!

-Byron
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#3
What's nice is the price point ! A 'low' price point does two key things:

1. Get's animals into many people's hands.

2. discourages smuggling.

I was NOT a fan of $500.00 O. sylvatica than came in recently for those reasons.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#4
Are the two D. auratus pictures shown on the link Chris provided, the only pictures they have released of them? If so, are those the "yellow" and "blue" that Black Jungle is taking orders for?
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#5
randommind Wrote:Are the two D. auratus pictures shown on the link Chris provided, the only pictures they have released of them? If so, are those the "yellow" and "blue" that Black Jungle is taking orders for?
yep I asked rich at frogday
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#6
Philsuma Wrote:What's nice is the price point ! A 'low' price point does two key things:

1. Get's animals into many people's hands.

2. discourages smuggling.

I was NOT a fan of $500.00 O. sylvatica than came in recently for those reasons.


Phil,

Is the price on the Columbian sylvaticus known? I was thinking they were gonna be high as well.

Also, are the smuggled sylvaticus cheaper then those $500 paru? I have no clue what the cost of smuggled frogs are except that I saw some crazy high ones advertised recently so was thinking they must have cost up near that amount. But thought maybe there was a significant markup in those because the $500 paru are listed at $1800 for the pair so that looked like a heavy markup to me.
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#7
Around 5-800.00 a frog for the rare ..ahem...'rare' stuff apparently.

The LEGAL excellent 'Paru' that came in via U.E were still around 500.00 per frog, no ?

Whenever you start talking frogs in 'the HIGH hundreds'....then the smugglers are listening.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#8
I can't find my email newsletter from Black Jungle. Perhaps I accidentally deleted it. Does anyone know how much the black and yellow auratus will be?
Jon
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#9
Yeah the Paru were $500 which is why I was shocked to see them sold for $1800 a pair. Based on your first post I was thinking since you weren't a fan of the $500 price, that it was because smuggled was cheaper....looks to not be the case.

Hopefully these Columbian ones are less......I am actually interested in that black and yellow one that was posted on facebook. Been trying to stay away from the Oophaga these days, but those might tempt me......and some of those green granuliferous.
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#10
Rusty_Shackleford Wrote:I can't find my email newsletter from Black Jungle. Perhaps I accidentally deleted it. Does anyone know how much the black and yellow auratus will be?

Black Jungle was taking preorders on the auratus for $89 and $119...don't recall which price was for black/yellow or black/blue.
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#11
MyDumName Wrote:Yeah the Paru were $500 which is why I was shocked to see them sold for $1800 a pair. Based on your first post I was thinking since you weren't a fan of the $500 price, that it was because smuggled was cheaper....looks to not be the case.

I'm not sure if I follow your statement here Greg, let me try again.

I'm not a fan of ANY newly legal imported frog being priced for ...let's say....over $300.00. The exact number is not important. The sentiment is that the new frogs be 'expensive' and therefore looked upon as a true 'luxury opportunity to get in on a chance to breed these new frogs for turnaround BIG BUCKS.

Check out all the moans and groans with that paru import. The moans and groans were from people who didn't get sexual pairs, got scewed sexed ratios or just plain frogs that didn't breed. 98% of the people wanted to breed them for profit.

Then come the smugglers. When they see and note the buzz and the fact of the high price point, i.e over 3-4 hundred dollars...then they start acting.

We don't see many if ANY smuggled Panamanian pumilo right ? Is it because of so many are imported ? Yes but dig deeper. Why are they imported and have seemed to just now, in 2013-ish, reached a 'consumer equilibrium' ? Price point. Retail of approx $100.00 to $150.00 a piece.

Some thoughts.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#12
randommind Wrote:
Rusty_Shackleford Wrote:I can't find my email newsletter from Black Jungle. Perhaps I accidentally deleted it. Does anyone know how much the black and yellow auratus will be?

Black Jungle was taking preorders on the auratus for $89 and $119...don't recall which price was for black/yellow or black/blue.


The "blue" are $89 and the "yellow" are $119....now if we can just get a few more pictures!
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#13
Where are they listed?
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#14
I follow Phil.....cause the high market price even for legal sets bar higher for illegal. I haven't seen any paru offspring available....anyone even having luck?
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#15
First Up Chris,thanks for this thread,it is the way forward,it is a huge chance for the hobby and by god don't I want both of these stella projects to succeed!!That chance to keep the "dream" frogs is something many of us yearn for,but you are so right in us supporting the other(ha ha) dream stuff,like these Colombian auratus. I don't really think I'll ever make my mind up truly about my personal dream frogs,damn I love auratus. Anyway back to it Big Grin is this tesoros project all down to just one guy? It sounds very much like it is from your post,just fishing for conformation,tis all. If so it is astounding that he has got so far, an amazing achievement,it has to be said. I'm not totally sure about not breeding these new frogs when they get here,I can't totally see why you would do this and the sentiments are fantastic,but I'd rather see them bred I think and some funds passed back to tesoros,anything to keep this project on track.

Phil this might interest you an the subject of price: a pair of Paru here,would set you back around $1,760 US dollar,so we are clear,ie £1100 English pounds sterling. To me this differential is something of a shame as it will exclude many of us here,only the very fortunate will be able to keep,money doesn't make the best keepers,IMHO. So I do feel for the other folks here,almost like myself,whom will be excluded by the sheer amount of money being asked. Phil for me personally if these large sums of money find there way back to the wild frogs and habitat,then for me, it helps. sure smugglers are in this for bucks and whilst they can get high prices the practice will continue. I don't see large oophaga as moneymakers, maybe I'm nieve but they don't churn out kids to fulfill orders they do what they do and possibly somewhere around a few froglets a year makes one very fortunate,but tis likely one would get less,especially in inexperienced hands. Stopping the smugglers is down to us....the hobby,if we will only buy these large oophaga from these projects,then they are screwed. But that might not be the case over here..hmm as with elsewhere. I do take your point though,if the price is so damn high most can't afford,then will the frogger that wants be prepared to save for legit,ahh man I bloody wish. I thought just maybe we (UK) would see possibly a £100 mark up to what you guys can by the Paru for. But really they are now out of reach at this time,hey ho,heads down and keep saving. But making a killing off large oophaga I still just can't see....ahh man ,but keeping some...what a joy to see one's very first kid come OOTW,what a joy to witness the courtship ,the various vocalizations, the strut.of a male...well ya know,these are the reasons to want and keep all our frogs...not bucks,

thanks Chris another sublime post

seeya

Stu
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#16
MyDumName Wrote:I follow Phil.....cause the high market price even for legal sets bar higher for illegal. I haven't seen any paru offspring available....anyone even having luck?

I know of a few selling paru offspring, in some cases offspring that are near adult. So, some people are having success breeding them.
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#17
If the adults do the work of raising the tads.....aside from proper enclosure and supplementation....where does experience vs inexperience come into play as far as getting offspring?
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#18
Stu,

That high price for frogs is 'blood money' as far as I'm concerned. It does nothing to help the hobby. It keeps the frogs out of a lot of good hands AND it encourages smuggling.

2 things actively combat smuggling and they go hand-in-hand.

#1 - Lot's of captive breeding and produced frogs.

#2 -lowered and continually lower prices.

They both create a cyclic dynamic. Even wonder why 'new stuff' has to be imported ? To keep the prices HIGH for 'someone'
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#19
MyDumName Wrote:If the adults do the work of raising the tads.....aside from proper enclosure and supplementation....where does experience vs inexperience come into play as far as getting offspring?
I can't speak to these paru, but my guess would be all the other husbandry that comes with harder to breed obligates. And, there are actually some intangibles that you pick up watching all your frogs day in and day out for decades at a time...
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#20
Philsuma Wrote:2 things actively combat smuggling and they go hand-in-hand.

#1 - Lot's of captive breeding and produced frogs.

#2 -lowered and continually lower prices.

They both create a cyclic dynamic. Even wonder why 'new stuff' has to be imported ? To keep the prices HIGH for 'someone'

I have to disagree. While those 2 points have SOME stance with combating smuggling, they are certainly not the most active points. If they were, auratus wouldn't be the most smuggled Dendrobatid.

Also, the $500 per sylvatica isn't necessarily decided by just the companies selling them (Wikiri, UE, Tesoros), the country of origin could have to do with it as well since they are charging for the permits. I don't really mind the price, I can't imagine how much money was sunk into these projects. I'd imagine any Oophaga from Colombia is going to be at least $500, and some probably higher.

Either way, this is an amazing thing! What a great time to be in the hobby. Hopefully they manage to sell a lot of these new frogs. Legal histrionica and lehmanni would be an amazing accomplishment.
Adam Hess
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