My batch of P. Vittatus!

[Markw]

Just an updated FTS:



My little guys are becoming MUCH more sociable now. At any given time, I can see six or so of them rummaging about the viv. They're even sitting in the bromiliad at the top left now and using it as a calling perch. Generally, they would stop calling and hop away if they saw me move in the room, but now they have no problem at all being out and about with me walking around the room. It's quite enjoyable! Still no fertile eggs, but I do have one carrying around a sole tad on her back that I missed somehow. Hopefully she'll deposit that soon in the new makeshift water pool I've put in there. It's sitting atop 4 cocohuts, one at each corner. I've added 4 magnolia leaves (not in there at the time the photo was taken) from the leaf litter in the tank. I also filled some of the canisters more than they were. They never really have that much water at all in them. So, hopefully she'll lay the little guy. It looks like it's only one, oddly enough. Either way, I'd like her to lay it. My cocohuts are home-made out of white coconuts instead of the normal brown because they're bigger, about double the size, as the brown. They cost twice as much, but I got 6 cocohuts for $6 instead of $30-40 buying at $5-7 each at petco. Everyone's looking happy and full-bodied. I'll post some more individual shots in a bit.

Mark

[Markw]

Well, as it seems, the new pool is the new hot-spot in the tank. I just walked in the room and there were three frogs in the water. I opened the top to mist and another popped out from under the leaves inside. If they really like it this much, it may become a more permanent addition to the tank. It also gives more hiding spots underneath since it's elevated. So it could be a good thing all around.

Mark

[Philsuma]

Good stuff Mark !! Transporting already....they ARE sneaky huh ?

I would caution against medium to large size water bowls. They are not the best - frogs can get trapped or drown. I would go with smaller size heavy glass or ceramic bowls. You will find that most dart frogs (vitattus included) will more often than not,choose a smaller water pond/ nook / cranny over a larger one. I would also add 2-3 of them and kinda bury them in the rear of the tank in and around some wood features and leaf litter. Does that make sense ?

Tads already. Very nice. Buy some tadpole bites and spirilina flakes at Petco / Petsmart.

[Markw]

That makes perfect sense. That enormous thing is all I had on hand at the moment. I was only usingit as a makeshift placeholder, really. They seem to love it, but, of course, you're right. I don't really like it in the tank either. So, as soon as I cafind something better, probably at someplace like AC Moore or something like that, it will be replaced with a few smaller pools. Theres only maybe 1/2" of water in the bowl, and theres a bit of leaf litter into a pyramid and leading to the outside edges, so getting out and drowning shouldnt be a problem until i can get some smaller bowls. As for tadpole bites and spirilina, I've already got some from raising bull frog tads. So Im set there. The little guys are settling in nicely. Thanks so much again.

Mark

[Markw]

Well, I checked the canisters again yesterday and the tad was laid in one! So I've pulled it and it's in a 4oz plastic cup with the water from the film canister and a little more bottled water. It's in only about 1/2" of water right now. I honestly don't know how old the tad is, or where the parents laid him. It wasn't in any of the canisters or petri dishes. He seems quite active at the moment, but I've only had him out for about 12 hours. I'm going to post my progress as I go along in this thread, so I hope you all can talk me through it as I have my first go with this.

Here he is!


I've hear of people saying you can't put too much water in with them, but I've also seen people use 32oz FF CX cups half full with them. So, I don't really know where to go with the water. Until tomorrow, he will be in this little bit.



I still have no idea where these guys are laying their tads, but I've got another one carrying two tads around on it's back! I've seen no eggs, no tads in any of the water around the tank. It's really puzzling to me! Hopefully they'll be laid today.

Thanks for looking!
Mark

[Philsuma]

Spectacular Mark !

I'm so happy to have personally been a part of your hobby enjoyment.YES, please take pics and updates and post them here.

P. vitattus are such an excellent hobby dart frog. Colourful, bold, aggressive eaters, easy to breed, good group frogs, 3-4 different calls / sounds / squeak - even the females make sounds. Have you heard them squeak like upset mice, when the females carry on with each other ? That's also a cool thing....they scrap a little bit but it all seems to turn out ok and no one is ever the worse for wear. Amazing species.

Most dart frog tadpole water levels need to be a little on the low side when the tads are only a day to a few days old. When they get bigger and are able to swim a lot better and surface easier, then the water level can be greatly increased.

Layers of leaf litter and half buried film cans are the key with breeding that species. They hide their eggs and guard them really well. So interesting.

Keep the posts coming Mark !

[Markw]

I have definitely heard the females. I find it hilarious to bring people in the room and have them thoroughly believe I MUST have more than one spe ies because you can distinctly hear 4-5 different calls and the females at times. K hear the males IMMENSELY more than I do the females. Lol. They've currently got 8 film canisters, 5 petri dishes, and 4-5" of leaf litter to lay the eggs in. I don't generally tear apart e leaf litter to find the eggs so as to not damage any eggs in there. But i suppose I should start doing so gently soon if they're having laying eggs. We can't have the tads hatching and dying off because they aren't in water on the leaf. Without knowing how old these tads are, how long do you think I should wait before moving him to a 32oz cup with more water?

Thanks!
Mark

[Markw]

Alrighty! The next two tads have been laid. This time in the cup you see them in here. I have a few of them scattered about the viv. I will be getting in some more FF cups Monday and they will all be transferred to their own 32oz culture cup then filled half way with RO water, with a peice of Indian almond leaf and a plucking of java moss for some oxygen.

Here they are now.


Mark

[dtfleming]

Mark, great thread and great frogs. They are def. On my list.

[Philsuma]

Mark, great thread and great frogs. They are def. On my list.

..and since you two live close to each other and Mark is starting to get a "vitattus factory" goin'....I bet you can get some tads at a very good price :wink:

[dtfleming]

hahah. Tks. I sure will. I regret not getting your tricolors and these.

[Philsuma]

hahah. Tks. I sure will. I regret not getting your tricolors and these.

AND...funny you should mention my tricolors (S.I).....THEY are close to you as well and throwing nice froglets. Contact "Blackwater Tropicals" on here. Todd S. He has the breeding group.

Sorry for the hyjack Mark.

[dtfleming]

Tks, for the info. Sorry to hijack also.

[Markw]

I'd be happy to help out once I get the hang of caring for the little guys. I'd love some advice on what and how often to feed these guys. I currently have good fish flakes and tadpole bites.

Thanks,
Mark

[Philsuma]

Every couple days drop a tad bite or 2 or a spiri flake or 2....as long as it doesn't cloud the water too much. I keep mine separately in small oz condiment cups and remove detritus with a turkey baster every week or so. Top off with aged tap water. No need for RO water IMO. Slice of Indian almond leaf always present for comfort / hiding and grazing.

[Markw]

No time to age the tap water this time around. I hadnt seen any eggs, so I didn't expect these little guys at all. That's something I will definately do for later batches though. was reading a thread on a different forum and they were talking about quite a few different things. Even some that i used to feed to my saltwater fish. Thanks again.

Mark

[Markw]

I was looking around and I was thinking: do you think it would be acceptable to set up a ten gallon tank just for the tads, and keep them in there with a good bit of java moss and maybe one or two full almond leaves? I haven't looked into this type of setup much, but I would think water conditioning would be much easier and the parameters would be much more stable. And, since my particular batch is communal anyway, I would assume it would work. Since I've only got the one species, wouldn't mind doing this.

Mark

[Philsuma]

Mark,

You sure could try a 10 gallon communal rearing set up. Why not ? Provide lots of almond leaves for barriers and try to feed a little on the heavy side - especially some protein like tad bites or shrimp, so the tads don't "alligator" each other.

Just observe them closely and give er' a go. Keep us posted.

[Markw]

I think I will do just that. But I think I'll go for a 20L. Just incase I happen to come across a clutch of an outrageous number like 18 or something. That will also give me more room to plant and build the land part at a gradient. As far as substrate goes, could I use this: http://www.amazon.com/CaribSea-Midnight ... 003HK8QE2/ ? It'd be great for the plants and I would guess the added minerals and organics would be good for the tads. But, I don't know for sure. So I want to ask the experts first.

Thanks!
Mark

[Markw]

Well, I just pulled another clutch. Quite a large one, actually. I actually found them this time. They laid in a film canister. Again, though, I fear that they're all bad. What do you think?



It's quite a shame to lose these guys if that's the case. I feel like I'm doing something wrong with the adults, and I don't know how to fix it. Is the general consensus that it's still a vitamin A deficiency? Could lack of humidity be the cause? I've been noticing that the wood in the tank has been a tad drier than usual lately. Probably because we just put a window unit AC in their room (Set at 72F. It stays around 74F in the tank.). I'm going to reinforce the seals with some tape and mist a few more times a day just incase that's it.

Thanks,
Mark

EDIT: Oh, and I didn't pull this clutch. I don't want to until I find out if theyre definately bad.