Dendrobates azureus courting and Egg Developement - Pics

[joneill809]

Snapped a few photos of the adults this weekend. They were up to laying eggs in the upper broms again. Caught the male checking on the clutch:
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The female is the more aggressive hunter. Here she is lurking around the viv floor while the male was tending to the clutch:
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And over in the other viv the froglets are continuing to grow out. The next set is getting larger:
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Finally the end is nearing the tadpole daily photo log. This little guy is routinely scaling the sidewall of the cup, so it's off to the grow out viv with it. I am contemplating dropping it in a small grow out tank to keep the daily log going focusing on size / color changes over time. I may give that a go tonight. The progress of the resorption is incredible.
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[Philsuma]

Great , as usual Jim !!

[joneill809]

Thanks Phil! I'm debating the effort on a froglet photo log and the extra stress of getting it out in the open for a daily photo. It would be interesting to focus on the color change over time! I may give it a go for a week and see if I really stress the little guy out...

[joneill809]

Olympic hurdler?
Jujitsu master?
Poll warranted?
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[joneill809]

Wrapping up the tadpole development daily photo log tonight! I've setup a separate viv for this froglet so I can continue with a daily froglet journal to document size and color changes. Here's the thumbnail photo sequence in its entirety.

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The rate of development in weeks 1-2 and weeks 15-17 are truly impressive.

The entire log and clickable full resolution images are here:
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/2012/07/14/laying-eggs/

[joneill809]

It's been a while on this thread. I cycled down the pair in December so I've had a pause in eggs. I've got about 15 froglets left from last years eggs and a bunch of fresh tads in the water. The froglets from last years eggs are showing quite a variety in patterns which I found interesting. The parents are finely spotted but I'm seeing quite a few froglets with large spots which is pretty cool. Here are some shots:
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I really appreciate the variety of patterns. Quite interesting to watch the spots change over time.

[Philsuma]

Jim, good on ya for cycling them. So many hobbyists want to breed and breed and breed. Very responsible of you.

[joneill809]

Thanks Phil! I don't know how good of a job I really did. :lol: I dropped the humidity and pulled their Petri dishes but they still managed to deposit a few times in a brom. I will say their yields increased dramatically this year to near 100% viable eggs. Not sure if its their age, experience, adjustments to supplements, my management of the eggs or a combination of everything (likely). I did add Repashy with Vit A over the winter in addition to Nekton Rep and Dendrocare.

[SDRiding]

That daily photo log was very cool! I'm entering week 4 with my Azureus tads, so it's pretty neat to compare it to your development. Thanks for sharing.

[joneill809]

Happy to share! That photo journal was a fun project. I have to find a [free] software package that is good at outlining. I want to turn the photos into a black and white series of illustrations to scale. I thought that would be neat

Post some pics of your tads! It's always fun to see what others are up to!

[joneill809]

A bit pic happy today. A few more were out and about. The variability is just too cool:
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[SDRiding]

Here's a bad closeup of one of my tads and an overview of their setup. They're apparently camera shy and I'm no photographer! They transported all four tads about a month ago, the interesting part is the third wheel who wasn't part of the mating pair actually transported one of the tads. I actually suspect it's a she.





And the third wheel checking out the perch, they go up there all the time. Once, I caught all three just kicking it up there having a pow wow but couldn't get to my camera in time.

[joneill809]

Nice! A trio - very cool. What are you feeding the tads? That one looks nice and plump. I have been lazy, mainly relying on NLS Cichlid formula (1 mm pellets) because I have a lot of it around. It's worked well for me, though I have tried tad bites but they seem to pollute the water more though. Not too long now and your house will look like this:
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I do pull eggs and treat with MB. The petri dishes are in the tank on the upper left. Froglets from last years tads are in glass grow outs grouped by size. I had them in a community grow out originally, but these smaller enclosures let me move them around a bit easier and separate out any froglets that are having issues. I can also rotate tanks for any QT cleaning needs. Close up of the tads:
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I ended up making a mistake with a FF cup order and I got solid lids. I had a 1/16" hole punch that I ended up using to perforate the perimeter of the lids. I was able to stack the cups so the vent holes were exposed so the mistake worked out for me. My operation has limited space ... cups go back about three deep. This is about 8 weeks of production! I think it may be time to cycle them back down again! I've been letting the viv dry out again, so we'll see if I can give them a month or two off.

Actually that is a good question to pose. I'm thinking of 2 months on, 2 months off. Does anyone have any comments on if that is a good cycle? That seems to be where I'm trending in my management of them.

[SDRiding]

I've actually been feeding them Omega One marine flakes, seems to have pretty high quality ingredients. Most of the tadpole bites consisted of strange things... I've been using a turkey baster to suck out the excess food after a few hours, I only have four so it's easy to micro manage them. I think I'm doing it right!

On the cycling of the dart frogs, I actually researched ALOT into reproduction frequency and lifespan... only to come up empty handed with just the ability to inference a conclusion. Essentially in just about every living organism studied, sexual reproduction equates in reduced lifespan. There were a few aberrant studies where the constant searching for a mate reduced the lifespan but it dealt with simple organisms. It has not been studied in Dendrobatidae that I'm aware of. Also, most of the vertebrate studies dealt with either rats or wild populations of animals. Wild populations have too many variables including increased risk of predation due to being exposed while attempting to mate. Another variable is the huge increase of food and fat availability while in captivity, so that could nullify the reproductive costs... but overfeeding could lead to liver damage...

So... my guess is that the less they breed the longer they will live.

I saw your blog on the weather in Suriname, which was amazing btw, but during the dry season they tend to be less active and forage mostly for termites. This doesn't necessarily mean they don't breed, but during the rainy season they have access to a greater variety of insects and the females can gain the excess fat to produce eggs easier. So you could try to mimic the rainy season and coincide it with your rainy season. The drops in barometric pressure are thought to be a trigger as well. That's my plan anyway. I actually tried to stop my Azureus from breeding once I saw the courting behavior... removed the pods with water... reduced misting and feeding... they still wanted to get it on.

I have citations for most of this stuff, too late at night for me to dig them up. If I made a mistake, sorry

[joneill809]

Yeah I have the same issue - slowing them down is tough. I've seen elsewhere that folks split up the pairs, but I am nervous about moving them around too much and stressing them out. I have been pulling petri dishes and water sources for soaking and increasing the venting when I want them to slow down. That seems to do the trick, but yes, they do "hit the broms" when the dishes are gone. Good thing is the broms are up high, so the female has to haul herself all the way up to the top to deposit. I suspect that is discouragement enough - she spends most of her time on the viv floor. The male spends most of his in the mid to upper ledges.

The Sipaliwini data project was fun. I need to poke around that one and the data logger again and rework the visualizations. I do want to get the tadpole development visualization done though - that one would be cool for the hobby. I added the quarter to the background so I can go back and resize the images based on the coin and then outline the tads and fill solid black. Should make for a cool Tufte-like visualization. Been busy with other visualizations for work, so I have not had too much time to manipulate hobby data sets...I really do want to script up the weather data project though so I can reproduce it more easily for other locales...my collection is expanding

Would love to see what you have been reading. Always interested in learning more!

[SDRiding]

Someone needs to invent the frog condom! Or we could show our frogs films of teen frogs with tadpoles going into a downward spiral of bean beetle addiction!

I really liked that data project, I hunted around for weather specific to the forest islands and your conclusions were the best I saw. I'm finishing up my Azureus' permanent home (They've been in their "temp" 18 cube for too long, I'm a slacker), and I'm hoping the design will allow for an ambient humidity of around 75% without misting and lots of micro-niches with 95%+ humidity. I'm trying to mimic the environment found in the wild, and I used your data for reference Granted, the humidity in my house is usually 50-70% so that's not a huge feat to accomplish!

I plan on taking a bunch of readings throughout the enclosure in different spots, using a calibrated analog. I'll post a build log of it sometime next week hopefully.

I'm dam glad there are power nerds like you who love data visualization!

I'm assuming you've looked into GIMP for making your tadpole visualization? I haven't used it in a while, it used to be pretty user unfriendly but powerful.

[Philsuma]

Nice and organized Jim. The only recommendation I would have, is more airflow to the tads.I've raised tads under every possible condition and although I have no hard evidence, I feel that they do better with access to more oxygen.It's natural, if you want to look at it that way.You could house them individually, which I also prefer, in small 'condiment cups" - basically a double shot glass of space, and still have your room / space for them. Lidless containers make feeding and turkey-baster water treatments so much easier as well.

[joneill809]

Hmmmm ... Long weekend and leftover plywood from a build ... I think I may have an interesting idea for a tad rack ...

[joneill809]

OK Phil - move to "no lids" is getting close. "Tad trays" have been assembled:
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Still kicking around if I will apply a finish. I hate looking at unfinished wood, but it likely won't matter in the upper shelf. The frame is 6.5" x 34" x 15 x outer diameter. The trays are 33" wide inside, and 14" deep. They can house three cups deep. The wood is pretty flimsy, it's 3/8" sanded plywood, but it should be good enough for stacking cups.

So to finish or not to finish. I think I have some white stain in the garage...may have to dig that out.

[SDRiding]

I like your handiwork! Pretty clever use of space and scrap wood. I might have to steal the sliding drawer idea for my bug cultures, I was just brainstorming today how to make the best use of my space.

Personally, I'd just leave it unfinished if it's going to be out of site anyway.