Is this a legal frog?

General Dart Frog Questions and Comments. Care and Husbandry
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RichFrye
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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby RichFrye » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:49 pm

Unless you know the circumstances of the frog's import or captive breeding or smuggling there is no way of knowing it's legal status.
As of this time the only frogs which are illegal and are absolutely 100% illegal and deemed door knocking down worthy here in the U.S. are mysteriosis.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby goods » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:56 pm

Natural hybrids occur in nature all the time...animals, plants, etc. Many of our present "species" are the result of hybridization events way back in history where the hybrid offspring were vigorous enough to persist and produce subsequent generations.

There is a naturally occurring histo/lehmanni hybrid that is believed to be represented in the hobby by the Anchicaya frogs. There was a paper published fairly recently that examined call differences between riverine and more upland populations of redheads, yellow lehmanni, and this natural occurring hybrid. These Anchicaya are a stable population in the wild as far as I know and not just random individuals within a fringe population comprised of both histos and lehmanni. Because these are a separate breeding population. It is not advisable to mix the "three" species.
ZG

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby whitethumb » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:06 pm

I know it occurs naturally... I just thought there is a term for it other than hybrid. Morten hit the nail on the head.

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby RichFrye » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:18 pm

Philsuma wrote:Hybridization does occur naturally, I think.

The debate is whether humans have altered the land, thus allowing the breeding to occur or if it is 'natural hybridization'.

^ Yes. Much as with a number of other recent obligates in our hobby now.
Animals which have natural barriers destroyed or altered or populations moved , purposely or otherwise can and do absolutely occur in nature.
And different species hybridize in nature, a tiger muskie is only one example.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby JL-Exotics » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:15 pm

zachaustin wrote:So would you keep the hybrids separate from the lemanni or the redheads? If it is a natural hybrid then why not keep all three in the same enclosure?


You are assuming that these populations are actively producing hybrids today. In reality, it may have been years, decades, even centuries since these hybrids populations were created and the hybrids we see today are distinct populations that continue to express the genes of both populations without interference from either the histrionicus or lehmanni founder populations.

I'd keep them separate.
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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby TapDart91 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:06 pm

Wow these are all beautiful frogs. Are they darts or imitators? Sorry a little new

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby morten müller » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:31 pm

Yeah, who knows, maybe histrionicus and lehmanni arising from the Anchicaya :lol:

It might be a bit off the topic, but my own experience with the Anchicaya testify is actually very difficult to breed, I only know one person in Europe who have made sustainable cubs on Anchicaya, maybe there is a coherence between this troubled-breeding and the species is a hybrid.?! ( Donkeys have the same problem :D )

My kollege and I have worked with 2.1 and 1.1 Anchicaya since 2008, and we have not provided viable offspring yet, despite several years of hard effort, but we have recently received more eggs than ever from the 1.1 by cooling the night temperature slightly, and by replacing the topglasset of the terrarium with white-glass / diamond-glass so UVB radiation better can penetrates the terrarium with 50 %, instead of 25 % above the stainless ventilation net. It seems to make a difference, but have no expectations.
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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby zachaustin » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:21 pm

All is very good info, and I do thank all for input. I was just kind of taken back that frogs that got me interested in the hobby and were told to me to be unobtainable are infact around. But rare, and often not discussed publicly.

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby Chuck Lawson » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:23 pm

They're good looking, however the genetics run. Wouldn't mind having a pair or trio of these :-)

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby rudy » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:48 am

What exactly is white glass / diamond glass?

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:24 am

rudy wrote:What exactly is white glass / diamond glass?


Low lead glass allows UVB penetration same stuff we have here in the U.S

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby rudy » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:23 pm

I have not seen UVB penetration to any significant level speced for low lead glass such as starphire. UVA has some penetration. Is there another maker with better transparency?

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby rudy » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:08 pm

I had to update the link, also added more data including more points for Finnex fixtures and some calibration data for lux on a galaxy note 3.

Fixture PAR Data

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby zachaustin » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:55 pm

So how do you become privy to when frogs of this caliber are available? Do you have to go through some kind of secret ritual?

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby rudy » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:28 pm

lol so obviously I mixed up my tabs feel free to delete above post.

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Re: Is this a legal frog?

Postby Roadrunner » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:09 am

intergrade
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