Philsuma wrote:The frog hobby in Europe has to be twice as big as the US. Entire Europe.
In response to your undocumented allegations concerning the size of the frog-communities in Europe. I can not get your numbers to match up, just as I can not make heads or tails of this supposed Lehmanni import.
In order to bring a bit of information into this discussion I have compiled a (partial) list of the larger forums in Europe:
It is obviously hard to judge as to the numbers of active frog people here. I have chosen to simply state the numbers of registered users in the forums. How many of these actually have and breed frogs I will leave to individual assesment.
This is a list of the most known and used forums in Europe.
Germany has two main forums, active since 2002, used by people from various parts of Europe, and outside of the EU.
Dendrobatenforum.de has 6049 users. Click HERE and Dendrobatenforum.info has 5793 users. Click HERE
Terraristik.com is the biggest official trade market for reptiles and amphibians in Europe. 8109 people have liked their facebook page which links directly to their home page. Click HERE. Everything offered on this page will likely appear in the Hamm Show in Germany four times a year. People from all over the world come to this event and many people from the U.S. also contribute here! The trade at Hamm is monitored closely by the German authorities.
Holland has gifkikkerportaal.nl, 7430 users since 2004. Click HERE
Austria has forum.froschportal.at, 940 users since 2009. Click HERE
Denmark has Dendromania.dk, 686 users since 2005, approx. 10% outside Denmark. Approx. 5% of all users are active posters. Approx. 10% are "inspirational" users (not actual frog owners).
(I am administrator of said forum) Click HERE
Sweden has Pilgift.se, run by the Swedish Dendrobatide Society (Svenska Dendrobatidsällskapet). 551 users since 2000. Click HERE
Dendrobates is illegal in Norway, for which reason there exists no Norwegian forums.
UK has two forums, dendroworld.co.uk, 872 users since 2008. Click HERE and poisonfrog.org, 375 users since 2013. Click HERE
I have not been able to verify any forums from France, Poland, Spain, Belgium and Switzerland. It is my impression that these countries are covered mainly by the German forums.
Obviously, some of the users on these various forums will be doubles, and a fair amount will be inactive. Judging by the limited amount of information regarding the number of active users, a safe estimate would be about 20% active users/frog keepers of total registered users.
Dartden.com has 40155 users currently, and Dendroboard.com has 21.000 total members, I think these numbers speak for themselves
Just to add a little bit of facts to this debate.
On-topic let me just say that the Lehmanni-story is now posted online in several countries/forums. All we know right now about the "Lehmanni-import" is what Ivan has told Stu. Nothing more, nothing less