Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Have a sick Dart Frog? Preventative, Treatments, Methods and Medicines.
cypho23
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Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby cypho23 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:13 pm

Not a fecal on ME, but on my frogs...just wanted to clear that up.

I want to learn to do fecals and test for other nasties on my frogs. Could anybody provide guidance as to texts, supplies needed, a good microscope(within a reasonable budget) and any other resources that would be well advised?

I am quite a few years removed from a Biology degree, but am able to read and digest about anything, know how to use a scope, and am a quick learn.

Am sure there is a decent size percentage of froggers here that have taken their husbandry and disease/parasite recognition to that next level. I understand the importance of a good herp vet, but I want to be more proactive and learn more.

Looking for some good start points and direction. I have ordered Wright and Whitaker's "Captive Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" and look forward to its arrival.

Thanks for all and any help.

Apologies if this thread is in the wrong spot.

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Philsuma
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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby Philsuma » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:47 pm

You got the right subfourm - no worries.

1.Quarantine
2. Fecal examination

are both rising steadily in terms of common practice. Definitely. Wright's book is still very valuable and a must have IMHO. $$$ though. There are 4-5 good threads here in this subforum re fecals, how-to, where to send, Q-tine stuff. Did you peruse them all ?

I plan on getting a scope and doing my own here very soon. You just have to gauge your experience and not overstep your abilities - misread a fecal ect. Learning and doing yourself is better than...not doing it, in any event.

Welcome to DD !

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Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby phelsumaman » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:57 pm

Hi Phil,
Could you give the full name of the book please? I'm always on the lookout for new reading material & I'm sure others would appreciate it as well

Ben

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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby Philsuma » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:06 pm

Sure Ben...here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=5088

It's way out of print and very thick and well made / researched - hence the high $$$ . And some may argue that it's a TEENCY bit outdated, but again, I would argue that it's very valuable and a 'must have" IMO.

phelsumaman
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Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby phelsumaman » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:19 pm

Thanks Phil,
I have my ways! If I find a PDF copy am I ok to post a link here?
Ben


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Philsuma
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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby Philsuma » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:21 pm

I don't see why not.

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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby phelsumaman » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:27 am

Here you go guys, grab it while its available;-

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?9c0vdr1ol6mdxf1

Ben

cypho23
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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby cypho23 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:37 pm

Any scope recommendations out there?

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RichFrye
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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby RichFrye » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:15 pm

Here's my quick take on dart frog fecals, and my experience with them.

I have taken a number of biology classes from grade school up to University of Michigan. So I know how to use a 'scope.
I traded some frogs a number of years ago for a nice Leica 'scope so my brother could show me how to 'do' fecals.
I knew how to set up fecals from previous fecals I had my brother run for my own collection. Many, many , many fecals from my own collection.
I sat down as he showed me what was what in different fecals from different frogs from different collections (never telling me who the fecals came from, privacy was/is key) and what I learned was that I could find different things floating around in the fecals. But I had no way of differentiating one protozoa from another, in some cases . Some cases where it would be very important...
I also had no clue of what are acceptable levels of certain infections of certain critters or bacteria , or fungus, or , or , or. And after I was told exactly what I was looking at , I had no idea what the best treatment would be...
So, while I acquired the 'scope as an interest in looking at what's in my frogs' poop , I found the ability to use my tools only as good as understanding of what needed to happen after I IDed all of the occupants of the fecal. And an interest in biology and simply looking at poop was not nearly as drawing to me as having a professional look at the poop, ID everything in the fecals, and then prescribe a professional recommendation.
You will not find a collection of dart frog parasite pictures which is comprehensive.
If the goal is to have fun and look at interesting things through the 'scope, it's easy enough.
If the goal is to by-pass a professional analysis of your frogs' states of health , then running one's own fecals is not what I'd suggest.
I sold my 'scope for a substantial 'loss' after realizing I found fun in other things.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

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cypho23
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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby cypho23 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:56 pm

I appreciate your perspective, Rich. Thank you.

I also understand that my interest and desire to learn could never be a worthy replacement for a trained professional with vast amphibian medical knowledge. And I also thank you for stating what I was wondering mostly about...the lack of a comprehensive list of dart frog parasite pic's.
Would you please tell your brother to relocate to Des Moines, Iowa...pretty please?

I have also heard of other members sending fecals to Dr.Frye. How do I initiate that process?

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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby RichFrye » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:06 pm

You are quite welcome.

Here's his contact info along wiht fecal sending info.
http://www.milanareaanimalhospital.com/
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Where to start? Want to learn to do own fecals.

Postby DrNick » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:11 pm

If you want to do floats you would also need access to a centrifuge, various chemicals and preferably some histological stains. As Rich says, it's fun (if you like poo and parasites....) but probably not a feasible replacement for a professional opinion - in most cases....

Nick


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