Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Culturing Fruit Flies, other Insects. Supplements and Dusting.
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Philsuma
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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:14 pm

Rusty_Shackleford wrote:Isn't it easier to get newbs to use one supplement at first ? To get them used to the concept and practice of supplements before moving on to a rotation of supplements. When I first started keeping frogs I already had many years of keeping other herps under my belt. I was already in the habit of using supplements. I do agree that a rotation of supplements is beneficial as opposed to using just one supplement. Why? Well the truth is we just don't know what combination of supplements is best so a rotation gives us the best chance at ensuring no essential vitamin or mineral is lacking.


Fixed your 1st sentence for ya Jon...I think you meant ' at first', right ?

Ya..you are right about Noobs. They don't know a lot at first and Rapashy is a decent product. I just dislike the many newer hobbyists saying the Rapashy is all you need, is all.

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby ChrisK » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:21 pm

Philsuma wrote: I just dislike the many newer hobbyists saying the Rapashy is all you need, is all.


Ed says it also though -

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby ChrisK » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:28 pm

Philsuma wrote:Is super preen a German Vitamin ? With your rare stuff Chris, I'd be using a rotation that would include 2-3 of the 'better stuff' - def a German Vit or 2. I'd build into the frog budget, about $90.00 a year for Vits and Calcs.


No I think it's an American bird supplement, all-around like Repashy Calcium Plus and it has the Vit A Palmitate instead of just Beta Carotene alone.

Well I had so much success with just the Repashy alone for years that I didn't want to mess with anything, but in the last 4 months or so I had some cases of spindly in multiple species so I was thinking maybe I had a bad batch or something and opened a new bag of Repashy as well as throwing the Super Preen into the rotation since lots of old timers swear by it. Another thing - I only feed/dust once or twice a week since my tanks are well seeded with other stuff and I use clay recipe and/or Turface substrate.

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:40 pm

Thanks Phil, I'm glad you knew what I meant even if I didn't. Sometimes the neurons aren't firing until the coffee hits the system.

I think it's kind of a natural progression in the hobby to begin to explore a rotation of supplements as well as additional food sources, housing techniques, etc. as you advance and gain knowledge about your frogs.
Jon - Ft. Myers, FL
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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:47 pm

hmmm...I dust almost every single feeding with some supplement, be it calc or Vit or colour enhancer.

My pumilio groups have a very low SLS rate.

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby ChrisK » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:55 pm

Yeah I dust EVERY feeding, but I only feed once or twice weekly depending on the tank, breeding/egg feeding etc (really for years now).

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Stu&Shaz » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:09 am

I'm one of those using just repashy guys,ha I'm also a newbe :roll: :lol:
We dust all feeds of ff with Ca+,we dust one feed every 2 weeks with the repashy vit A supplement. Honestly I'm beyond thrilled with our results so far,i see your point of view guys,i think these vits a very important,i see why you want to rotate,your trying to make up for deficiencies in one product. My take is slightly different i suppose in that,i focus on the diet and see the suplements as the word implies as secondary to that diet.So i try and get hold of wild grub to add to the species we culture,i will add that there is a risk to this wild grub.Its a stickied thread for a new guy,he should know there are risks and also that we are in England (uk). I feed live wild grub to tadpoles, plus cylcoops eeze 2 types of fish flake and NLS amphibian formula.the growing frogs/adults get aphid small spiders springtails baby iso amongst other wild caught goodies, plus the cultured various ff 3types of iso bean weavils 3 types of springtail.We also add Ca(grated culttlefish bone..eggshells) to our springs and iso cultures,for them to munch on. We also vary the diet of most feeders
We utilise the best uvb lights we can get our hands on from Arcadia

This post is in no way meant to undermine your thoughts and wisdom,guys,its more than i have to offer!! What I'm trying to get over i guess is that i wish we spent more time worrying about how we could improve the actual diet of our frogs,maybe a slightly different mindset. I think in time this is one area that we can and should move forward on

Phil i hope this stays within topic,their food is just so important,
best always

Stu

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Philsuma » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:34 pm

Stu,

I find the average hobbyist to cut corners most times - hence trying to get by with only one single powered sup - calc and vit combined or even no supplementation !

Harvesting meadow plankton, varied diets are not the norm, mores the pity. Also, I don't trust viv populations of crunchy insects to provide necessary calcium levels, turface or spilled supps be damned.

I'll still swear by a varied supplement rotation.

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:41 pm

Stu what kind of Eurpoean supplements are available over there besides Nekton and Dendrocare? Those are the only two I've ever heard of so I'm kinda curious.
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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Stu&Shaz » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:09 pm

Philsuma wrote:Stu,

I find the average hobbyist to cut corners most times - hence trying to get by with only one single powered sup - calc and vit combined or even no supplementation !

Harvesting meadow plankton, varied diets are not the norm, mores the pity. Also, I don't trust viv populations of crunchy insects to provide necessary calcium levels, turface or spilled supps be damned.

I'll still swear by a varied supplement rotation.

Bro ya good?
Yes i hear you Phil,i understand exactly where your coming from!your commitment towards the novice is beyond commendable,my post was really just trying to make those new guys that are willing think a bit further. Its important they realise i'm of little time with frogs and don't have a fixed viewpoint yet,we are learning too much too fast. I do try to help out abit too.Maybe its a bit left field but worth putting out there for those whom will look .

Hmm when are you going to teach us how to cut these corners then mate :lol:
best
Stu

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Stu&Shaz » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:15 pm

Rusty_Shackleford wrote:Stu what kind of Eurpoean supplements are available over there besides Nekton and Dendrocare? Those are the only two I've ever heard of so I'm kinda curious.

Hi Jon,ha i hope your well too my friend.Jon I'll do some digging for you bro,.I'm very short of time,i just wanted to say Hi and bare with me. the obvious one the longer tern keepers have used(if one can find them) is nutribal, although many have reported better results with repashy:more detail will follow
best

Stu

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Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby phelsumaman » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:26 pm

Hi Rusty,
The de facto multivitamin in the uk is nutrobal, I do use this in my rotation however I personally don't think it's up to much, the particle size varies wildly so I really can't be sure that my animals are getting everything that's in there. Also worth mentioning that nutrobal is designed for reptiles rather than darts specifically. I've been using this for as long as I've kept herps (celebrating my quarter century of reptile keeping this November) and I don't think the composition has changed in all of that time.

I also use nekton rep and Dendrocare as part of my multivitamin rotation.

For single vitamins I buy powdered capsules which come from a us company called life extensions, they put a date of production as well as an expiry date on the bottle so I can get a good idea of how long it's been sat in a warehouse! I have found that all of their powdered capsules are micro fine and easy to dust with, I will use d3, calcium and I also use vit a (as retinol) once a month.

Ben

Rusty_Shackleford wrote:Stu what kind of Eurpoean supplements are available over there besides Nekton and Dendrocare? Those are the only two I've ever heard of so I'm kinda curious.




Ben

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:07 am

Stu and Ben I appreciate the responses. The reason I asked is just to see what was out on the market over there. I know that Nekton-Rep has long been used over there as a general herp supplement. I was pondering the advance of supplements and was wondering if you were ahead of us over there on that side of the pond.
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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Stu&Shaz » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:43 pm

Rusty_Shackleford wrote:Stu and Ben I appreciate the responses. The reason I asked is just to see what was out on the market over there. I know that Nekton-Rep has long been used over there as a general herp supplement. I was pondering the advance of supplements and was wondering if you were ahead of us over there on that side of the pond.


Ben,thanks for the help buddy,newbe's huh :roll: :lol:

Jon alot of the dart guys here rate repashy very highly, Ben has forgotten more about vits than i'll probably ever be able to assimilate !!!I've been digging abit in europe for alternatives for you,as the hobby in Germany and Holland i believe to be more advanced to ours in blighty. Here are some links for you to ponder on:

http://www.dutch-rana.nl/v2/index.php?p ... &Itemid=79

(oh offtopic have a look in here for some inspiring vivs,the dutch just seem to have a way with plants!!! http://www.dutch-rana.nl/v2/index.php?o ... 06&lang=en )


http://www.terrarientechnik.de/Food/Vit ... 90_72.html

this is what's available here through our only specialist amphibian shop in the UK

http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/equipment/fertiliser.html

I hope this is of some help Jon enjoy the rana site mate,worth also looking at the image gallery again offtopic but again i'm sure it will be of great interest to all,(you'll like the tinc page :wink: )
best

Stu
Stu

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:19 pm

I would NOT just use one supplement. There are a lot of new people trying to use just 'Rapashy' and nothing else.

I always recommend a rotation of several different supps. I'm almost sure it's a laziness thing. People only want the one quick thing to use and nothing more.

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby frogfreak » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Philsuma wrote:I'm almost sure it's a laziness thing.


Phil,

I only use Repashy. I experimented for a long while with Repashy as a stand alone supplement. I was confident in the work Allen did to perfect it and believe that he'll continue to do so. I went out on a limb and decided to try it alone. I've been using it for well over a year and I can see a change in the frogs. They look healthier, are more active and give me good clutches. What more could I ask for? I was going through 5 supps that I wasn't all that confident in. That's why I was using 5 in the first place. Basically, just in case 1 or more were crap. IMO we've be given a supplement that was designed for darts. Times change and we move forward. The days of tossing supps that are 3/4's full are done with me. At this point in time, I see no need to add to my rotation. Not lazy at all! I did my homework/experimentation with this supp AND went out on a limb to chance using a single supplement. I'm very pleased with it.

Best,
Glenn

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:15 pm

No worries Glenn.....sometimes my posts get a little preachy and opinionated., but I still feel that a 'Hobby' forum, is fueled by opinion. I totally respect yours, in regards to Rapashy. We can always disagree. On the 'Lazy' remark. Don't take that one personal ! It's kinda like 'if the shoe fits' / look in the mirror, type of statement. You are obviously not lazy in your animal husbandry.

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby BcsTx » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:50 pm

Glenn I only use repashy as well, have been for a year or two now and have been having great production 0 spindly leg.
I also have a lot of micro fauna in my vivs, and add springs, several types of isos as well. My pums get fresh springs 3 times a week.
-Beth

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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby dtfleming » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:15 pm

Right now I use repashy and nekton rep. I stopped using Rep-cal and herpvite only use that to dust FF for new cultures. Frogs are doing well and have great color. So far all my zarayunga and leucomelas offspring are doing well.
Dendrobates, Phyllobates, Rantiomeya, Epipedobates
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Re: Supplements - What kind ? Rotation ?

Postby outofreach » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:10 pm

Philsuma wrote:I would NOT just use one supplement. There are a lot of new people trying to use just 'Rapashy' and nothing else.

I always recommend a rotation of several different supps. I'm almost sure it's a laziness thing. People only one the one, quick thing to use and nothing more.



Right now I just use rapashy calcium plus.

I use only rapashy because I feel I need to have a better understanding before I start mixing stuff. It seems that so much is a matter of opinion and there are so many conflicting opinions it get confusing. I have reptivite and reptical and a couple others but am not using them as of yet. When I got my first frogs a few months ago I ran to the pet store on the way home and they sent me off with rapashy vitamin A. Luckily I did a little research before any problems but I think that vitamin A as a sole supplement everyday wouldn't of ended well.


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