Where should I buy my frogs ??

If you are new to the hobby, then this is an excellent starting place. ALL questions are good questions here!
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Philsuma
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Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:06 pm

Please keep in mind this thread is geared towards assisting the new hobbyists in helping him or her to make informed choices, select healthy animals and have an excellent chance at a positive hobby experience.

The following is personal opinion, flavoured with advice geared towards helping the newer hobbyists. It is not gospel. It is not black and white. It is not Dogmatic - all or nothing. It is not "do as I say, not as I do". This is also not "Official Dart Den.com" policy. It is merely personal experience and an attempt to logically and easily lay out a starting point of choices to help the new member here. ALL readers are encouraged to take what they will from it, ask further questions - here in this thread or use any or all of it as a jumping off point en route to acquiring more information from other sources.

I encourage disagreement and robust debate on this topic as well as any other here but what I do NOT want to see, is "Forum Lawyering" and people who seem to want to put all their energy into finding the exact typed word or sentence for their "Master stroke" or "Gotcha" moment.

If you want to discuss who, when or where you should get a Dart Frog - then this thread / Forum is for you. Please don't come here with a sharp stick trying to stab your way into the limelight.

When I get a PM, asking me where to get Dart Frogs, and I've gotten three here in the last 24 hours....here's what I would do:

1. Join an online Dart Frog Forum - like this one :wink: If it is a 100% Dart Frog niche forum, you will have a much better chance at getting pertinent information about Dart Frogs and where to get them, then from a generic "Frog or Amphibian Forum".

2. Read a TON of posts and classified ads. I would recommend several weeks worth of reading and posting before even starting to consider a species from a particular "source" that will provide the actual animals (frogs). Find posts by those hobbyists that are close to you and read them all. Buy from a SPONSOR of a forum. There's a reason they are a Sponsor, as the forums don't just let anyone slap on that title. The Sponsors are good business people and hobbyists. PAY EXTRA ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THE POST /ADVERTISER IS NEW OR NOT...HAS LOTS OF FORUM ACTIVITY AND CRED AND NOT JUST A FEW RANDOM POSTS. LIKE ANYTHING IN LIFE -DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE , ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS AND MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION AFTER LOTS OF THOUGHT.

3. Key into the Forum sections that announce the Local Meetings and Gatherings. Unless you live in New Mexico or South Dakota, chances are...there will be 1-4 of these meetings per year, within 1-4 hours away. They are your BEST source of acquiring Dart Frogs, as you are getting them from fellow hobbyists who are invested in the hobby. Try to locate some members that live close by as well. When they transfer a frog to you, they will often provide immediate customer service, often being able to meet you should something go wrong or a problem occurs. Don't be afraid of these local meetings. All the meetings that I've been to, have been full of fun, friendly people...and of course....EXCELLENT deals on quality frogs.

4. Captive born Frogs are the best choice .Not only are you rewarding the breeder for their excellent, good work with taking the time to produce quality frogs, but you are also hooking into a local network by buying them close by. Many times local people get huge discounts and of course, do not have to sweat and worry about all the potential problems that are intrinsic with shipping. Local buying also gets you better, quicker customer service and "tech support" IMO as well.

5. Reptile shows are second best, to Frogger Meets and Gatherings. Again, try to look for the True Hobbyists and Forum people that will be vending and staffing a table. There will also be Big Businesses, "Flippers" and Jobbers present at all Reptile shows. I would only patronize them if I had the input and recommendation of an experienced hobbyist, whom I trusted. I would say, be sure to get someone that's been in the hobby for a long time and that you feel, knows what he is talking about, to recommend buying from a wholesaler, importer or flipper.

6. Mail order / Website / Craigslist ect. I would not recommend buying anything sight unseen and taking a chance with a shipped frog unless you have the complete backing of someone senior / experienced, in the hobby to guide you and even then, I would read Fauna Classifieds Board of Inquiry (BOI) as well as Dart Den.com 's vendor feedback / rating section AND ask and PM a few people that have posted in connection with the potential seller.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby ChrisK » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:15 pm

Philsuma wrote: and Gatheringings.


Gotcha! :P

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:18 pm

You're still behind Rich, in line Chris....but I like your spirit !

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby cablemandan » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:22 am

I conversed with the fella from Saurian.net way back when I first wanted to start in the hobby. I checked back and its still going and this is where I was considering my purchase. I've seen other sources on the web, but some look shady and I like the info and thought on that site.

If anyone knows other places to shop around lemme know.

PS - this is for mostly beginner frogs, because I see pictures on this board of awesome frogs i have never seen before ;)
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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Tony » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:51 am

Where are you in WA? The Seattle area is full of froggers.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby cablemandan » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:13 am

I'm in the Seattle area. I guess I will have to look into meets and stuff here.
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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:24 am

cablemandan wrote:I'm in the Seattle area. I guess I will have to look into meets and stuff here.


Read this entire sub forum on "Regional Groups , Shows, Gatherings and Event". You can also post location specific info there as well.

u-s-regional-groups-shows-gatherings-and-events-f40/

Check out the "Announcement" post on the very top of that Forum. It links to a site that lists almost all the major shows in the U.S over the course of the year. There's got to be a big one near you, at some point.

I would go to at least 1 or 2 large "Reptile" shows (they are only referred to as Reptile shows, but they always have Amphibians and Dart Frogs as well) and take a long look at some potential vendors .Heck, you can even meet some breeders at a Reptile show and ask em' questions face to face.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Tony » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:38 am

Darren Meyer usually has a good selection of tincs, auratus, etc available, here is his site: http://www.ribbitrecordings.com/index2.html

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby DKOOISTRA » Mon May 23, 2011 5:22 pm

I can personally attest to item #5
There will also be Big Businesses, "Flippers" and Jobbers present at all Reptile shows. I would only patronize them if I had the input and recommendation of an experienced hobbyist, whom I trusted. I would say, be sure to get someone thats been in the hobby for a long time and that you feel, knows what he is talking about, to recommend buying from a wholesaler, importer or flipper.

I almost made what I would call a pretty serious mistake at a local show. It was the first and only time this particular vendor was there, and he had some dynamite looking frogs. Had it not been for a friend that was vending next to him I may have bought from him, this was a couple years back before I had a better idea of who's who etc...
Knowing this individuals rep. now, I'm glad I listened to my friend. Even if the frogs were top-notch, I would not have bought from them stricktly on principle.
You need to be careful.
derek
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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Mon May 23, 2011 5:39 pm

Derek,

good for you, on principle.

I'll wager that 90% or more of the hobby would buy frogs that they like from whoever it was / no matter of their reputation ect.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby cablemandan » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:15 pm

I had a similar experience at a herp show recently. There was a vendor there that was selling frogs to people with no knowdledge whatsoever, and different kinds at that, saying they would all be fine together in a 30 gallon or larger. I wanted to put in my 2 cents right there, since I had been researching and reading for quite a while before I purchased, and I am a newb. I can only imagine what the poor frogs are going through a few weeks down the road now. Sad. Hopefully the folks went home and found a lot of info fast on the net.
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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:50 pm

Do to a few recent instances of for sale ads and other things.....folks, be sure to ask a ton of questions and try not to considered buying frogs from people sight unseen. That is, from a member with very little history / posts and info in his or her profile. Some people can sign up under different names or email addresses. It's impossible to account for each and every member account in any forum. That's just a fact.

So, when in doubt..."ask about". Shoot one of the Admins or Mods here a PM asking about your possible deal.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Dendrodave » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:37 am

[quote="cablemandan"]I conversed with the fella from Saurian.net way back when I first wanted to start in the hobby. I checked back and its still going and this is where I was considering my purchase. I've seen other sources on the web, but some look shady and I like the info and thought on that site.

If anyone knows other places to shop around lemme know.

PS - this is for mostly beginner frogs, because I see pictures on this board of awesome frogs i have never seen before ;)[/quote]


Good choice cablemandan, I got 90% of my frogs from Patrick @Saurian.net and I have been super pleased with his frogs and I'm about to get more from him in a week and on the holidays when I santa visits my house. :wink:

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:32 pm

Folks, this is a topical discussion thread...not a vendor feedback thread. All feedback for Patrick can be posted in the Vendor Feedback subforum.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:02 am

Longevity is key in this hobby.

Been around for @ 10 years or so ?
Thousands of helpful postings and for sale adds over the years ?
Good feedback on a 100% Dart Frog forum / venue ?

THATS what you want to look for !

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:31 pm

If the seller cannot tell you where his breeder frogs came from or who produced them and is all wishy-washy on facts and details, ect

and you STILL buy from them instead of someone who can give you tons of info....

then YOU are part of the problem.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 02, 2012 7:40 pm

...time to dust off this little 'chestnut' again....

2008...I bought 12 WC O. pumilio at an importer (name is NOT important for this moral) and hand-selected them all personally for apparent health ect. At this time, I considered myself an above average hobbyist with some good experience keeping dart frogs - specifically pumilio.

10 out of 12 died. Some within HOURS. MOST within weeks.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A REFUND OR 'I'LL MAKE IT RIGHT' WITH IMPORTER ORDERS. They die for any reason and it's NEVER going to be their fault. You WILL lose.

public service announcement for the newbs.

Stick to CB pumilio unless you know what you are doing, or chances are....you will not be pleased with the outcome.

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby BcsTx » Wed May 02, 2012 8:01 pm

Good "dust off" Phil esp. with the the new imports coming in.
Whether from Panama or EU, hope y'all know that live arrival is not guaranteed when buying from Strictly.
I will reiterate the first point that it is better buying from local hobbiests or breeders, meets are a great place to start and if they do not have what you are looking for you can "face to face" ask for referrals for other breeders etc. As far as shows go, not including FrogDay there can be big vendors pawning off wc or sickly frogs but it is another way to meet fellow froggers and breeders who can guide you on your purchase and frog care.
For example at the last NARBC in Tx last year there was a large company vending and had alot of reptiles and darts I remember telling Casper omg I have never seen a skinny dart like this ever. Casper and other froggers went to see them, they were campana auratus (obviously W/C) this retailer does not breed their own frogs just flips them, and my frog buds were whispering to people looking at them saying do not buy them.
Long story but hope I elaborated on your thread Phil.
-Beth

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby Ghostvivs » Wed May 02, 2012 8:55 pm

BcsTx wrote:Good "dust off" Phil esp. with the the new imports coming in.
Whether from Panama or EU, hope y'all know that live arrival is not guaranteed when buying from Strictly.
I will reiterate the first point that it is better buying from local hobbiests or breeders, meets are a great place to start and if they do not have what you are looking for you can "face to face" ask for referrals for other breeders etc. As far as shows go, not including FrogDay there can be big vendors pawning off wc or sickly frogs but it is another way to meet fellow froggers and breeders who can guide you on your purchase and frog care.
For example at the last NARBC in Tx last year there was a large company vending and had alot of reptiles and darts I remember telling Casper omg I have never seen a skinny dart like this ever. Casper and other froggers went to see them, they were campana auratus (obviously W/C) this retailer does not breed their own frogs just flips them, and my frog buds were whispering to people looking at them saying do not buy them.
Long story but hope I elaborated on your thread Phil.



Those frogs were the skinniest and most sickly looking frogs I have ever seen. I'd be surprised if they made it through packing them back up...or if they just tossed them...

Sad thing is, their a big name to many in the hobby.
What some see as death, others see as beauty.


Casper

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Re: Where should I buy my frogs ??

Postby BcsTx » Wed May 02, 2012 9:12 pm

Darn it Casper I cannot remember the name of the vendor maybe an L or R.
They were in horrible shape, a good example or precedent of what not to buy.
Like I said before local meets are the way to go. Thumbs up for y'all at the Tx NARBC that told others not to buy them.
-Beth


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