Has anyone tried lowering their lighting?

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RichFrye
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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:49 pm

BTW, I've seen more than a few people on beaches 'basking' in UVB and photons. If they took more natural vitamin D into their diets they'd be a lot more healthy than basking.
It's truly amazing how healthy all animals can be with more natural diets, and less supplementation. Astounding some times.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby dendroworks » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:57 am

UVb basking is what I am interested in - photonbombardment def not!
All of my Oophaga vivs I keep on the 'gloomy' side with just enough light to keep plants alive. The whitefoots love gloom, make their viv 'bright' and they become invisible! A couple of my Ranitomeya species too (Benedicta and Vanzos) prefer a less lit viv. Like Rich I believe that too much light is not beneficial for our frogs. I have seen vivs lit so brightly that sunglasses were needed to look into them and the frogs were nowhere to be seen - wonder why!
A couple of years ago I noticed that some of my shyer frogs were out prior to 'lights on' in the morning and would emerge immediately after 'lights out' at night (my frog room has windows) so that's when I started experimenting with lower light levels and gradually reduced them to what I have today. Saying that, on some of my vivs I have a 'bright time' when additional lighting kicks in for two hours from noon, again similar to what happens in nature.
I honestly believe that the lower light levels provide a more natural environment for my frogs although it does mean that the plants have to take second place and you need to find plants that, like the frogs, do well in gloom.

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:04 am

Thanks Marcus , good info.

Rich

P.S. I've been looking for the 'thanks ' button and can't find it now. A member here told me recently that he could not either.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby D3monic » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:37 am

Its the little thumbs up top right corner
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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby chadfarmer » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:47 pm

Been running led's on my single 18x18x18 and havent noticed a difference on my tank, frogs, even the plants are doing fine.

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby Venutus1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:06 am

Philsuma wrote:You keep this up, you are gonna run out of sig space indeed.

I did a test....I took off my low level, entry, bargain basement fish tank light and strapped on that 65watt flood light - onto my 20 gallon high vert

and the Basti that was in that tank (grow out) not only became more active ( I watch this tank 2-3 times a day) BUT seemed to actually bask in the enhanced /higher light. I may only have 7 years with Darts but I go back to 1977 with keeping anoles and Geckos, so I am pretty sure I know what animal basking looks like. Coincidence.....just glad to have good light instead of purple fishy tank light. Perhaps. But an interesting oberservation and test, none the less.


I had a male variabilis basking out on a stick today and was going for the camera to get a pic, ( I believe you Phil!) but spooked him of his pearch in my zeal. :wink:

****Hmmm... maybe we all really need (the same brand) light meters, so we can have real data as to light levels to compare.
I see a few ones that seem really economical on ebay.
I was going to spring for one anyway, if anyone else is interested we could co-ordinate.****

something like this?
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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby Venutus1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:07 am

chadfarmer wrote:Been running led's on my single 18x18x18 and havent noticed a difference on my tank, frogs, even the plants are doing fine.


What type of led lighting are you using?
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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby Venutus1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:17 am

Addendum: this might be my over-active imagination, but it seems in the few group tanks I have ....
It is always the "alpha" frogs that are the ones most out and most active when it is full lighting (& UV B .)

btw..The ambient UV B levels I have are what one would consider on the low side for herps in general, for safety sake.
They are little thumbnail frogs, not bearded dragons after all. measured with solarmeter 6.2, but I am going to be factoring in the readings of a solarmeter 6.5 as well, going forward.
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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:57 am

Venutus1 wrote:Addendum: this might be my over-active imagination, but it seems in the few group tanks I have ....
It is always the "alpha" frogs that are the ones most out and most active when it is full lighting (& UV B .)

btw..The ambient UV B levels I have are what one would consider on the low side for herps in general, for safety sake.
They are little thumbnail frogs, not bearded dragons after all. measured with solarmeter 6.2, but I am going to be factoring in the readings of a solarmeter 6.5 as well, going forward.


How many species of dart frogs do you have and how many have you worked with? What're the periods of time you have had them and viewed higher and then lower light levels with activity differences? Getting back to the original question .

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:09 am

chadfarmer wrote:Been running led's on my single 18x18x18 and havent noticed a difference on my tank, frogs, even the plants are doing fine.


Higher or lower photons?

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby Tony » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:44 am

My auratus are coming out in the open a lot more, but still dive for cover when they see me. The tincs are as bold as ever, and the galacts are spending more time out in the open. No noticeable difference with pumilio yet.

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby Venutus1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:40 am

RichFrye wrote:
Venutus1 wrote:Addendum: this might be my over-active imagination, but it seems in the few group tanks I have ....
It is always the "alpha" frogs that are the ones most out and most active when it is full lighting (& UV B .)

btw..The ambient UV B levels I have are what one would consider on the low side for herps in general, for safety sake.
They are little thumbnail frogs, not bearded dragons after all. measured with solarmeter 6.2, but I am going to be factoring in the readings of a solarmeter 6.5 as well, going forward.


How many species of dart frogs do you have and how many have you worked with? What're the periods of time you have had them and viewed higher and then lower light levels with activity differences? Getting back to the original question .

Rich


Variabilis, N & S and I have had them a year and a half, in 5 different set ups with different light levels in the variety of set-ups. :) As you know, I only refer to what my guys are doing or reacting.
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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:27 am

Venutus1 wrote:
RichFrye wrote:
Venutus1 wrote:Addendum: this might be my over-active imagination, but it seems in the few group tanks I have ....
It is always the "alpha" frogs that are the ones most out and most active when it is full lighting (& UV B .)

btw..The ambient UV B levels I have are what one would consider on the low side for herps in general, for safety sake.
They are little thumbnail frogs, not bearded dragons after all. measured with solarmeter 6.2, but I am going to be factoring in the readings of a solarmeter 6.5 as well, going forward.


How many species of dart frogs do you have and how many have you worked with? What're the periods of time you have had them and viewed higher and then lower light levels with activity differences? Getting back to the original question .

Rich


Variabilis, N & S and I have had them a year and a half, in 5 different set ups with different light levels in the variety of set-ups. :) As you know, I only refer to what my guys are doing or reacting.


I'm just trying to get to the meat of the matter, as I've not heard input from you on what happens (all thing equal) when you reduce light . If you have five different set ups and reduce light in each of them at the same time through a breeding season (they do have a natural breeding season, once a year... key here... ) what has happened? It does not sound to me as if you have went from high-ish to very low.
My question is what happens when you turn down or off your lights? My supposition is that with well fed (well fed being variety of diet, correct volume and supplementation, in that order of importance) the darts I've worked with act more natural and you will be able to see them more , breeding is better, and they live a 'healthier' life.
I'm trying to get actual experiences to support or disprove my claims. To say we have seen a frog or three sitting in a brighter area of a viv , every now and then , could mean lots of things.


Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:31 am

Tony wrote:My auratus are coming out in the open a lot more, but still dive for cover when they see me. The tincs are as bold as ever, and the galacts are spending more time out in the open. No noticeable difference with pumilio yet.


I have a feeling with the obligates it takes a bit more time to notice a difference. It could have to do with deposit sites and a role they have with egg feeding . A change may not see results until after a clutch is carried , a tad transported or a froglet morphed. Speculation though. That's why I mentioned waiting for results for a few weeks or so.
Good to see more activity with the others though.



Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby D3monic » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:09 pm

dunno, been a week now. I turned the lights down on the Benedicta, reticulata and Uakarii vivs. I have rarely seen the retics and benedicta since turning the lights down. Both of which where fairly active prior, contrary to what I have heard about bene's. The only ones who seem indifferent to the lighting change are my Uakarii. They may be more active but hard to say since they where all over the place in the get-go . I wll continue for another week and see if theres any more of a change.
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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:06 pm

How about trying it for more than one week? As suggested.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:23 pm

I really hate the time limit on edits...Really hate it. If you hit the edit button and it allows you to edit /type only to be told after typing for a half hour that you can no longer edit and your work is lost ...IT SUCKS.


Back to lighting.

A week is no time at all to find benefits of lower light. I have no idea where everyone is in there breeding cycles, or even if people are actually cycling their darts up and down at all. But depending on where your frogs are in the breeding cycle (which should be one breeding season per year ) you may see no benefit for months.

This is a commitment which will absolutely kill some nice plants which are not indigenous to our darts' habitats. It will take a bit of time to prove out and if you are not willing to sacrifice a few plants , or at least transplant them, this is not the experiment for you. But, if you trust a few of the guys who are breeding some of the tougher species it may be worth both the time and the sacrifice of plants vs. sacrificing potential benefit to the darts.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby Spud » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:35 pm

I thought about light levels when I recently redid a viv for my anthonyi pair as I noticed them (especially the female) hanging out in low light areas in their former viv.

I used a 20H vert and used clay to cover 3 sides of the viv. I wanted to create ‘levels’ as I know the males like to call at different heights so I have wood criss-crossing at different heights. Near the top of the viv, I have a few broms and such, but 1/2 - 2/3 of the way up I used Philodendron hederaceum. It grows thick and has sturdy leaves – I know I may have to trim a bit every once in a while to keep it under control, but I wanted the plant to block much of the light from reaching the bottom portions of the viv. Between the broms, wood, and philo the bottom of the viv is very dark (I need a flashlight to see well) and my female seems to be much more active throughout the day in the bottom dark portions. The male usually is calling in the upper portion of the viv, in the wide open lighted areas.

The viv has been up and occupied for about 2 months. This past week I have seen a clutch (on a philo leaf in a dark area) which is uncommon as usually I breed my frogs in the winter.

Although these frogs have always been bold for me, standing in the open and such, they do seem to be more active now. Maybe it’s due to less light or perhaps a better microfauna population or something else. I should also note, I will not turn on any of the the lights for all my frogs 1-2 times/week – I have not seen any ill effects to my plants. I started doing this during the summer last year with the heat so it has been about a year.

-John

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby Tony » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:20 pm

RichFrye wrote:I have a feeling with the obligates it takes a bit more time to notice a difference. It could have to do with deposit sites and a role they have with egg feeding . A change may not see results until after a clutch is carried , a tad transported or a froglet morphed. Speculation though. That's why I mentioned waiting for results for a few weeks or so.
Good to see more activity with the others though.



Rich


I didn't expect to see a difference in the pumilio so quickly, especially since they are still relatively fresh imports, just wanted to post a quick update since I have already seen a difference in the auratus and galacts. I'll definitely keep going with reduced lighting.

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Re: Has Anyone Tried Lowering Their Lighting?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:49 pm

Thanks Tony. When did you get the pums?

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


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