Tads with air bubbles

Eggs, Tadpoles, Froglets
BcsTx
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Tads with air bubbles

Postby BcsTx » Thu May 30, 2013 9:03 am

Seems this is a common question..
When I first started in this hobby with my bb Auratus was feeding tads daily, noticed air bubbles and asked a experienced local Frogger what caused it and when I told him how often I was feeding he told me 1-2 times a week, I followed his advice the air bubbles went away I have not had them since. I do not do water changes just top off with spring water when needed.
Mentioned this on a thread on another forum and the members with 1 year or less determined that amphibian ringers solution was the "cure" I do not mind helping beginners but do find it frustrating when they flock together and do not even consider the advice given by a Frogger with experience, when I first started I asked questions and listened to those with years in the hobby...
Not that everything is an all encompassing one answer cure I will admit I don't always have the answers or 100% all the time but worth trying.
Just my .02...
My .02...
-Beth

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Philsuma
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Re: Tads with air bubbles

Postby Philsuma » Thu May 30, 2013 6:05 pm

Very true Beth.

I can't recall seeing a 'ringers solution' advice or similar but I'll share my theory, as I've had 4 different tads with bubbles and all survived and morphed out fine.

I've heard two main theories for Internal 'gasses' inside the tadpole:

1. Gasses present in the water
2. Gasses formed by excess or large amounts of fishfood protein, as in tadpole bites and common commercial fish flakes.

While some people report bubbles decreasing or going away after water changes, I think that the issue is food related and here's why. Even though some species of Dart Frog larvae are absolutely cannibalistic, I don't think any commercially available food with a protein base is close to what the dart frogs finds and needs in nature. Coupled with the common tendency for hobbyists to overfeed virtually everything and you have a small tadpole ingesting more protein than it should - creating the gass. Water changes would be helpful and eliminate some of the excess food and possible help to flush the tadpole to some degree, but I really think it's too much protein.

Here's a helpful link.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=4622

BcsTx
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Tads with air bubbles

Postby BcsTx » Thu May 30, 2013 6:57 pm

My thoughts as well. I do not do water changes unless it is really murky, typically happens with the "forever tads" then I just use a turkey baster.
Lately I have been letting my BYH and Auratus raise their own, the only tads or eggs I pull are my thumbs when I find them plus the mints which I raise communally in a 20 gallon.
-Beth

frogface
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Re: Tads with air bubbles

Postby frogface » Fri May 31, 2013 7:37 am

Ok I'll try this again without the outlawed links, lol.

The 'noob' in question was following advice she got from a former zookeeper and herp specialist, on another thread, about swollen tads. The person in the other thread also followed the zookeeper/herpetologist's advice about using ARS to reduce the swelling, and, the tad did turn around and survive. Photos of the tad's progress were posted and a vet at the San Diego Zoo was also involved.

So this noob was, in fact, following advice of a very experience and seasoned frog specialist. Additionally, the noob that prompted this thread seems to be very thoughtful and proactive in learning about and caring for their frogs.
Do you know where your frogs have been?

DrNick
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Re: Tads with air bubbles

Postby DrNick » Fri May 31, 2013 7:51 am

I agree on the food front - although IMO there can also be a degree of predetermination/developmental issues that can lead to particularly negative effects from over feeding. Maybe some offspring are predestined to have issues and for these a reduced diet helps. Others that are 'healthy' can maybe feed ad libitum with no issues. Extricating husbandry-related effects from 'genetics'/viability is always difficult, but in the case of air bubbles I'm confident that both play a part.

When I started breeding R. reticulata I had a run of a dozen or so tads with air-bubbles, none of which survived. A few people including Beth suggested reducing the feeding, which absolutely worked. No air bubbles since.

On the other hand, I have two breeding pairs of Varadero R. fantastica. One pair consistently produce healthy offspring. The other pair (or, I should say, the other female mated to either of the males) produces only tads that develop air bubbles and die - under exactly the same husbandry conditions regardless of how much they are fed.

As with so many things, it's likely a combination of factors to which there is no definite cure. There are things that have been shown to help though, reduced feeding being one!

Nick

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Philsuma
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Re: Tads with air bubbles

Postby Philsuma » Fri May 31, 2013 8:11 am

One thing we now know, air bubbles/pockets in tadpoles are somewhat common. I used to think it was some rare occurrence.

Diet composition needs to be evaluated, especially the proportion of protein and the source.

BcsTx
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Re: Tads with air bubbles

Postby BcsTx » Fri May 31, 2013 8:39 am

I will say that the last page of the thread it was determined by the OP's Vet that it was was water quality.
The thread in the past she is reacting to.
-Beth


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