Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Eggs, Tadpoles, Froglets
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ZenMonkey
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Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Postby ZenMonkey » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:24 pm

The last two times I've removed an egg clutch from the coco hut, the next day the male keeps going in and out of there and doing his "egg behavior." (My scientific term for the crouching and rotating that means he's either fertilizing or hydrating.) In these cases I don't think he's laying down the love, so to speak, because he doesn't call like he does when the petri dish is, um, prepped.

Is he actually looking for the eggs that were there yesterday, to hydrate them? I'm thinking about leaving the next clutch in the hut until they either go bad or hatch, to see what he does when the eggs haven't been removed. (I have around 20 tadpoles right now so not overly concerned about losing a clutch.) I'm also not really anthropomorphizing as much as the subject might imply, but it does look like he's searching for eggs to take care of.
A girl named Joey.

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Philsuma
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Re: Well now I feel bad.

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:56 pm

Perfectly normal feelings. I have them myself.

Another excellent reason to let them care for eggs / tads in the viv. Also cuts down on you having to transfer the froglets to someone.

On that note, be prepared for the bigger chain stores or businesses to low ball you or outright not be interested in your froglets as auratus are so very very common and not in demand - yet another reason to not raise too many.

Some thoughts.

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ZenMonkey
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Re: Well now I feel bad.

Postby ZenMonkey » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:33 pm

Aw, man, he's in there again.

Thanks for the advice, Phil. You might recall I'll be trading all my tads, but right now as I'm starting to run out of space, it does seem like the perfect time to let the male take care of his offspring and alleviate my guilt.

(No, you do not have to have human children to turn into your Jewish mother. Pets and spouses will suffice.)
A girl named Joey.

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Philsuma
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Re: Well now I feel bad.

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:49 pm

^^ lulz!

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Frogman955
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Re: Well now I feel bad - taking thier eggs

Postby Frogman955 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:01 pm

My Azureus give me the big sulky eyes look when I`m taking their eggs.
They have started hiding them from me now so that I can`t take them.
I then find that they have been putting them in a large brom axil and it is now full to the brim with egg gel.
They had some tads in the front drainage gully and if I had a look in there they would be right in about watching every move I made in case I took their tads.
Personally I think dart frogs are a lot more intelligent than what we give them credit for.


Mike

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Re: Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Postby ZenMonkey » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:05 pm

Well, I was excited to see the male emerge from the hut today with a tadpole on his back. One of these days I really need to see how they manage that. He spent some time going back and forth between a very shallow water source and a jello-shot cup partly filled. He was able to submerge the tad at least up to its tail (if not deeper), but either he doesn't know how to get it off or the tadpole has no intention of leaving Dad.

Then the male went on one of his acrobatic explorations of the viv, climbing and leaping all over. I don't mind if he wants the kid to join the circus, but I was starting to wonder whether he'd forgotten the tadpole was there at all.

When he took a break to stare for a while into the coco hut ("I feel like I forgot to do something..."), I misted the viv and specifically the male, since the tadpole was looking a little dry. Now he's back inside the hut. I'm hoping he makes another attempt but I am curious if he went inside to get another tad thinking he'd already taken care of the first one.

Is it usual for the male to need some practice at this? Is it unethical not to intercede? Seems like he'd have to go through largely the same thing in the wild. If he does manage to deposit a tadpole, should I pull it or just make sure it has food and see if it can grow in the vivarium? (As I understand it once they're dropped off, auratus tadpoles are on their own, but in the wild their water would naturally acquire stuff for them to nosh.)
A girl named Joey.

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ZenMonkey
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Re: Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Postby ZenMonkey » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:08 pm

On his first pass towards the water:

Image

Auratus acrobatics:

Image
A girl named Joey.

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Re: Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Postby frogfreak » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:31 pm

Hi Joey,

The males can carry tads for days. It's really up to the tad when it decides to leave his back. So it seems anyways...The male does know the tad is still there, for sure. Just watch the frog, he has some extra strut in the step lol Showing off. :lol:
Glenn

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ZenMonkey
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Re: Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Postby ZenMonkey » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:31 pm

Thanks for your reply! Heh, my husband said he's giving the tadpoles a vivarium tour a la Lion King: "Someday all of this will be yours."

He did finally manage to deposit the tadpole -- pretty neat watching him figure it out. Not until he submerged AND started scraping at it with his hind leg did the thing finally drop into the water. And it's been quite active, swimming around and attracting the curious interest of the females. Maybe they think it's a new pet for them.

I added a few more little water cups around the vivarium in case he's not just proud but picky.
A girl named Joey.

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Re: Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Postby Philsuma » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:28 pm

I see a question where someone wonders if pulling eggs all the time equals stress to the animals. I don't know if they 'miss' or pine away for their lost eggs but I'm absolutely sure that the very act of breeding and egg laying produces stress, caloric and vitamin depletion ect.

This is the reason so many experienced breeders tell the new people to slow down and give the frogs a break once a year. 'overbreeding' can be detrimental or even deadly in our hobby.

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Frogman955
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Re: Well now I feel bad - taking their eggs

Postby Frogman955 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:47 pm

I know this thread is a few months old but I want to add my thoughts.
I`ve seen a lot of things which makes me think the frogs know exactly what they have and where it is as regards their eggs or tads.
Does removal cause stress ?
I don`t know, but based on how we react if our child was to go missing then my thinking is that, yes, they do get concerned/stressed.
As I`ve posted before I see it mostly with my Azureus but I think that's more because they are regular layers.
I don`t try to create dry spells or wet spells with any of my frogs to stop or start breeding and only adjust the misting according to how wet or dry the viv is to try and keep a constant amount of humidity.
They seem to decide for themselves when it`s time for a break.
This of course applies to my Tincs.
My Pums just seem to please themselves though.
I think personally it is a good idea to leave them alone once in a while to watch their eggs grow and allow them to transport their tads and see their froglets morph.
I have had my Leucs rear youngsters in their viv, partly because I didn`t know they had any eggs to begin with, and on a couple of occasions the first I knew was when I saw newly morphed froglets hopping around.
To me it all adds a bit more to the enjoyment of the hobby.


Mike


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