Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Eggs, Tadpoles, Froglets
ashli
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Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby ashli » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:58 pm

First official post...long time k
This little guy has been OOW for about a week. I noticed his mouth hanging open about 2 days ago. This was not an issue when he was freshly morphed last week. Two other tadpoles hatches when this one did, they never grew, their mouth area looks kind of pointed, and they eventually died.

He is from the parent's first clutch. They have been laying weekly, but my luck with the eggs has been horrible. I have this little guy, and another month old tadpole. The other eggs have all gone bad. The last 3 clutches do not appear to have been fertilized.

I have 2 males and 1 female in a 55gallon tank. They are Bicolors. Temperature is betwen 75 and 78 degrees and humidity is typically between 75 and 85% depending on time of day. Their food is dusted at every feeding. I use Repashy Calcium Plus and Vit A once a month. I am thinking I should maybe start using it weekly.

Other than the mouth issue he is very active. He constantly climbs an the flies I put in with him are gone. I haven't actually seen him eat though. I took these pictures before moving him to a smaller container with damp paper towel as substrate, some leaf litter and a pothos cutting.

Has anyone seen this? I'm at a loss. With the issues I've been having with their eggs and other tadpoles I was excited to have this one morph and look fine. I have been raising all of my tads the same, and my Benedicta tadpoles and froglets have never had any issues.

This little guy has been OOW for about a week. I noticed his mouth hanging open about 2 days ago. This was not an issue when he was freshly morphed last week. Two other tadpoles hatches when this one did, they never grew, their mouth area looks kind of pointed, and they eventually died.

He is from the parent's first clutch. They have been laying weekly, but my luck with the eggs has been horrible. I have this little guy, and another month old tadpole. The other eggs have all gone bad. The last 3 clutches do not appear to have been fertilized.

I have 2 males and 1 female in a 55gallon tank. They are Bicolors. Temperature is betwen 75 and 78 degrees and humidity is typically between 75 and 85% depending on time of day. Their food is dusted at every feeding. I use Repashy Calcium Plus and Vit A once a month. I am thinking I should maybe start using it weekly.

Other than the mouth issue he is very active. He constantly climbs an the flies I put in with him are gone. I haven't actually seen him eat though. I took these pictures before moving him to a smaller container with damp paper towel as substrate, some leaf litter and a pothos cutting.

Has anyone seen this? I'm at a loss. With the issues I've been having with their eggs and other tadpoles I was excited to have this one morph and look fine. I have been raising all of my tads the same, and my Benedicta tadpoles and froglets have never had any issues.

ImageIMG_1184 by ashli kerrigan, on Flickr

ImageIMG_1182 by ashli kerrigan, on Flickr

ashli
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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet Issue

Postby ashli » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:26 pm

..Quick update. On a whim, thinking that maybe (although I really doubted it) he was having an issue shedding or something, I gave him a quick direct spray down with some treated tap water. His mouth is closed now, and a slimy substance came off him as he climbed the side of his new container.

I'm going to leave him alone and keep an eye on him, but I'm hoping this was just a weird shedding issue and he will be fine. Fingers crossed.

...also my first post should say long time lurker..not long time k lol

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet Issue

Postby ashli » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:46 pm

Well his mouth is still open about 90% of the time. He is still active and wandering around his bin.

I'm not too sure what to do at this point. When he climbs the side of the bin there still seems to be some sort of "milky" stringy substance around his neck and front arms. If this is an ongoing shedding issue is there anything I can do to help him along? Or should I just wait it out and hope for the best?

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet Issue

Postby Philsuma » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:11 pm

I've had numerous morphed phyllobates vittatus which is a similar species, but have never encountered 'gaping' like you are describing. Based on what you are describing, it certainly seems like a shedding issue. I would make sure you have good -@ 80% humidity and somewhat warm temps of, possibly, @ 75-80F

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet Issue

Postby ashli » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:13 pm

Thanks for the reply. I did amp up the humidity, the temps have been a little warmer too. The little one has gotten better, his mouth is probably closed 75% of the time now. He is still fat and active, although he is starting to look at little less bloated now which I think is good.

I watched him a little closer when I put some flies in his bin today and he definitely goes after them, but it took two strikes to catch one, then when he got it in his mouth it fell back out when he tried to swallow. He went back to being slack jawed for a bit after, but quickly closed his mouth and started hunting for another fly. He has access to lots of spring tails, and I have been feeding him flies since last week and they have been disappearing..however they could also just be making their way out of the container over time, as it is not fruitfly proof at all.

Is it possible for a freshly morphed froglet to have STS? Should I try dusting with some vit A? Any suggestions? He doesn't appear to be wasting away, but I am not seeing any poops in his bin. I haven't exactly looked terribly hard because I don't want to stress him out too much though. He is still very little..is it possible the melos are too big?

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet Issue

Postby Philsuma » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:00 pm

I would discontinue feeding springtails and yes, try to transition to a small wingless variety of fruit flies. You do say you dust every feeding and I assume you alternate vitamin powder and calcium. Make sure that the product is fairly fresh - not over a year old, and if in doubt, buy new. I would also use the Rapashy vitamin product that includes Vitamin A, but only once a month, maybe twice. I cannot say when the onset of STS occurs, if right at the froglet stage or later.

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby ashli » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:23 pm

Thanks for the quick reply.

I've been using Calcium Plus and Vit A..no vit A for the youngin' yet though. Both supplements are less than 3 months old and I keep them in the refrigerator when I'm not using them. I use the calcium every feeding, and the vit a once a month for my benedicta, but have started doing it every other week for my bicolors since the keep laying bum eggs.

I was under the assumption from my research that these were all I needed, so I haven't been using anything else. Maybe I should pick up some Repashy Supervite. I did use it about two years ago but stopped, thinking I didn't need it.

In the meantime I will stop with the springs and get some wingless flies.

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby ashli » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:52 pm

Just an update:

The little guy didn't make it. I only ever saw him eat one fly and that seemed like an accident. I just don't think his mouth ever developed properly.

The only other Bicolor tad I have left the water yesterday, so my fingers are crossed for better results. I am still getting only bad eggs from these guys weekly, so I really do think there must be an underlying issue with the adults.

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby Philsuma » Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:41 pm

definitely change up your supplements - buy fresh and consider adding Dendrocare and possibly another product to your rotation.

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby joneill809 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:03 pm

I had fertility issues with my Lorenzo. They are know for being genetically limited due to a small founders population in captivity. One trick that did work was increasing their Vit A supplementation regiment - 1x per week for a month following a run of bad clutches, then moving to 2x per month for their schedule (different than the rest of my collection). I just work in a "Lorenzo" feeding day once a month were they get extra Vit A. I just cycled them back up after 7 months of no clutches, and their first clutch was 3 for 3. Like Phil said, adding Dendrocare to a rotation is a good thing as well - I work that in once a week as well.

About how many bad clutches have you gotten? Another thing to consider is cycling them down for a while then trying again in a few months. Repeated breeding is stressful on a female, so I would consider than in your long term planning for their care.

For longer term planning, if they are a sibling group and you are determined to breed, I would recommend sourcing animals from a second, unrelated or less-related source, then pair them up.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby ashli » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:22 pm

I will try to find some dendrocare..though I haven't had much luck finding a local vendor here. My Benedicta get the same supplements, and I haven't had any issue with their eggs going bad in the last 6 months or so. I will continue giving them vit a once a week, hopefully eventually it helps. My supplements are less than 3 months old and are stored in the fridge. I've been using calcium plus and vit a. Is supervite necessary as well? I had read that calcium plus was an all in one?

I did try keeping them a bit dryer to give them a rest, but even if I mist once a week they still lay weekly. I've lost count of bad clutches, but only their first two clutches gave me any tads (and the survival rate on those wasn't great). I've gotten at least 5 bad clutches. I've had them for under a year, They are siblings, I will try to source some unrelated frogs to add to the group, but up here in Canada the selection is a little smaller.

I'm not so much determined to breed, it just happens to be rewarding when it does happen :)

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby Philsuma » Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:31 pm


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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby dendrocare » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:20 pm

Best Ashli

You can see at outlets where sold in Canada.

http://www.dendrocare.com/en/where-buy- ... utlet.html

Sincerely Dendrocare :wink:

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Re: Freshly Morphed Froglet open mouth Issue

Postby ashli » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:24 pm

dendrocare wrote:Best Ashli

You can see at outlets where sold in Canada.

http://www.dendrocare.com/en/where-buy- ... utlet.html

Sincerely Dendrocare :wink:


Thanks! Sadly none near me. I will have to look into somewhere that ships.

My local shop wanted to look into stocking your product. Should I point them in the direction of your website?


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