What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
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Philsuma
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Can we get names Ray ?

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby stemcellular » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:58 pm

I don't see the need. Just offering my two cents.

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:08 pm

oh......ok.

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby JJuchems » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 pm

Philsuma wrote:oh......ok.


Giving the name only lead to getting harassing emails, ect. If individual want to release what they keep they will, if not it should remain private.

I have species in my collection that only my wife (if she remembers) and business partner know about. I intend to keep it that way.
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:37 pm

Jason, that's just your opinion....others have different opinions.

I already have the names and additional info and I'll post another sylvatica update post soon. I like to 'lay it all on the table".

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby JJuchems » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:47 pm

Let make sure I am understanding you correctly:

You are ok with others posting, and you are also willing to personally post individuals names without their knowledge and consent with what they own in their collection.
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:53 pm

Only people openly selling sylvatica.....selling. Just like Taron.

There are people trying to 'bite' or otherwise take advantage of this recent Wikiri import and are openly selling similar animals - just like Taron. I just want to be sure everyone knows about the differences of the animals and business models ect.

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby thedude » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:06 pm

Hey Phil, that sounds like a good way to push those people away from the community aspect of the hobby. And especially a good way to push people away from this board.

I'd be interested in hearing more about these frogs origins. Ray, did these research animals come straight from Ecuador? Or did they come from Europe? If they are from Europe, the CITES permits are basically worthless. I want to know who in Ecuador let these frogs out legally, and with what paper work. If you don't feel like answering any questions publicly, feel free to PM me. I am NOT interested in any names.
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:04 pm

Push, pull, keep, drive away......all of that is secondary to my goals for this forum - the help the hobbyist, get the info out, advance the hobby and the animals, and finally...

level the playing field.

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby thedude » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:16 pm

I'm pretty sure the froggers that are putting $500 down for a frog are experienced enough with enough connections to figure things out for themselves. If anything, letting everyone know the people who have these frogs, will just make it easier for inexperienced froggers to get a hold of them.
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby frogfreak » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:27 pm

thedude wrote:If anything, letting everyone know the people who have these frogs, will just make it easier for inexperienced froggers to get a hold of them.

Hey Adam,

I don't think that would be the case. People who breed and sell these frogs are more likely sell to very experienced hobbyists.
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby BcsTx » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:46 pm

frogfreak wrote:
thedude wrote:If anything, letting everyone know the people who have these frogs, will just make it easier for inexperienced froggers to get a hold of them.

Hey Adam,

I don't think that would be the case. People who breed and sell these frogs are more likely sell to very experienced hobbyists.


With the exception of Taron.....
-Beth

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Ghostvivs » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:54 pm

But... unless they are posting on a public forum for sale, no names are needed.

Post it in public, people have the "right" to know.

But if I tell someone in private that I have frogs for sale, that is NOBODY "right" to know, but the people I tell.
What some see as death, others see as beauty.


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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby JJuchems » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:37 pm

Phil your comments are not adding up:

Philsuma wrote:Only people openly selling sylvatica.....selling. Just like Taron.

There are people trying to 'bite' or otherwise take advantage of this recent Wikiri import and are openly selling similar animals - just like Taron. I just want to be sure everyone knows about the differences of the animals and business models ect.


Yet the people who have research animals are not selling, just obtaining animals. Yet, you are wanting names posted in the open. There names are not needed or relevant.

Philsuma wrote:Push, pull, keep, drive away......all of that is secondary to my goals for this forum - the help the hobbyist, get the info out, advance the hobby and the animals, and finally...

level the playing field.


I am puzzled by" level the playing field." How does releasing of names of individuals owning a species level the playing field? How does releasing the names of people holding a private sale level the playing field? They have the right to sell to whom they choose. Again, in this conversation hobbyist have brought up the need to sell these to experienced hobbyist, again limiting and selecting those who can purchase.

You are neglecting the fact these are privately held animals, part of a privately held collection.
Last edited by JJuchems on Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:42 pm

Jason....you are fucking lost on what I was saying. You and I both missed the 'information handshake' by a mile on this issue, I guess.

I have a lot of other stuff on my plate - PM's, questions and disgruntled members right now and I can't keep 'plucking' away at trying to make you understand.

Just relax a bit until I can back to you on this....

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby cbreon » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:57 pm

I have been lurking on this thread for a while and thought I would throw my two cents in...

thedude wrote:I'm pretty sure the froggers that are putting $500 down for a frog are experienced enough with enough connections to figure things out for themselves. If anything, letting everyone know the people who have these frogs, will just make it easier for inexperienced froggers to get a hold of them.


I doubt it, often times some of the most experienced and capable hobbyists don't have the money. Furthermore, if they aren't in the right clique then they might not even have the opportunity. Also, they might not want to b/c the frogs, not necessarily this group, may be of questionable origins.

thedude wrote:I'd be interested in hearing more about these frogs origins. Ray, did these research animals come straight from Ecuador?


I'd like to hear more too, not necessarily names but how this info came to light. It must be pretty concrete for you to feel so confident...

Here is what I don't understand about this whole situation. If someone had 10-20 breeding pair in Europe why did they not sell them there, why the US? I didn't realize that EU bioligists/scientists held US froggers in such high regard. Furthermore, it seems like the EU market pays just as much, if not more, for such frogs. Why would they sell pairs, why not froglets and keep the pairs? Also, in the case of Taron's, it seems amazingly coincidental that the groups for sale are populations within the same general area of Ecuador as the Paru/Choco reserve...

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby thedude » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:59 pm

cbreon wrote:Also, in the case of Taron's, it seems amazingly coincidental that the groups for sale are populations within the same general area of Ecuador as the Paru/Choco reserve...


Not only that, but the Bilsa that came in are from a reserve themselves. So if these do turn out to be smuggled, how do you think Ecuador is going to react? I doubt they will be too happy that right after they allowed the export of the Paru, other populations were smuggled out. And Wikiri is probably very upset that someone is undermining the good they are doing.
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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:59 pm

Here's the previous and 'third' Paru thread for continuity's sake...I'll tie them all together at some point.

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Re: What's with all the Oophaga sylvatica suddenly?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:21 pm

I'm seeing multiple SEXED pairs of paru and other silvatica offered on BOTH coasts -frog day, and it seems people are NOT buying.

500.00- 700.00 per frog is high, but for a sexed or proven pair ? Economy issue again / people can't spend the big money, only the medium to small money ?

Thoughts ?


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