Oophaga granulifera setup

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morten müller
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Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby morten müller » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:25 pm

Hello dartden.com

I'm looking for some inspiration photos of a Oophaga granulifera terrarium and setup.

So, can anyone perhaps post some pictures? it would be very helpful, as I soon start to build a terrarium for a group of the "Golfito localization". I have kept and breed oophagas species since 2007, but never Granulifera, therefore this request

I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it, I'm sorry
Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)

I did not listen in school, so I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby Philsuma » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:45 pm

Hi Morten,

Here's some preliminary reading (not viewing) to help a bit:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4830

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby morten müller » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:28 am

Hey phil

Thank for your reference, but I have read this post long ago :)

it's a great post Rich have made, and it's a shame that all the images have been deleted.

I fant this article from amphibiaweb, it also describes Oophaga granulifera in their natural habital.

see link: http://amphibiaweb.org/cgi/amphib_query ... ranulifera
Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)

I did not listen in school, so I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:09 am

After I catch up with a ton of other frog stuff from the long holiday weekend I will post more pics of my granny vivs and frogs and attempt to 're-folder' the missing shots, or replace them with new.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby pafrogguy » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:51 pm

Sweet! I been waiting on some photos before I start my Quepos tank. Looking forward to it!

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby goods » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:58 am

Morten, a bit off topic, but if you're producing the frogs listed in your signature, I think we all have something to learn from you. I would love to see pictures of your set ups and frogs when you have time.
ZG

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:33 pm

These are crappy pics of a few crappy looking vivs. But , these are also the vivs that consistently over the years have done the best. I just can't get great pics of my vivs, for several reasons.
These are at the point in development where I will be adding lots more leaf litter very soon.
The viv with the most plants also has a bit more light than I like, but I consider it my plant grow -out viv as well as a granny breeder. It's a 160 gallon viv, so there are plenty of dark spots for the grannies to feel comfortable. The other two vivs are 90 gallon.

L1050861.JPG


L1050857.JPG


L1050866.JPG


L1050874.JPG


L1050876.JPG


L1050878.JPG
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby pafrogguy » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:05 pm

That is a crapload of film cans!

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby Philsuma » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:20 pm

"Cluster' deployment = very important IMO. Makes the frogs feel more secure about deposition, i.e not just one single lone film can that can be easily raided by a predator. Also more closely mimics a multi axled brom.

Nice pics.

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby pafrogguy » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:15 pm

I have never tried that before. I usually have about 20 film cans embedded throughout GS backgrounds just scattered throughout, plus I always have multiple broms. They tend to use the broms first, but use the cans as well. I have always had good results that way. I just ordered a few hundred of the floral picks to try out and I will do some clustering on those to give it a try though.

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Re: Granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:51 pm

pafrogguy wrote:That is a crapload of film cans!


And those are just a few of the ones you can see. There are WAY more hidden under litter and tucked away.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby morten müller » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:35 am

Hi Rich

Thanks for your photos, it was not how I had imagined a setup for granny.

I'd love to comment on it. but I am on a weekend vacation with my family, so it will be by Monday

Thanks again
Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)

I did not listen in school, so I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:08 pm

In-situ shots of granny territory to show what I am trying to emulate . Not much ground cover...



MP9O3501.JPG


MP9O3632.JPG
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:13 pm

MP9O3719.JPG


MP9O3726.JPG
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:22 pm

MP9O0220.JPG
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby morten müller » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:53 am

Hello Rich

I violated your terrariums are just perfect, and I also think your terrariums describes your photos really well, I can see my own ideas will probably not be expressed in a Oophaga Granulifera setup.

I am surprised by the large use of film containers, why not use small Bromeliads? there are so many bromeliads species that can be used from the same locality, I know the frogs in their natural habital not have the same opportunity to use these plants, but my own experience shows that the Biodiversity can be much bigger or even better in a bromeliad, than in a film container, that why I stop using film containers for tadpoles years ago, now I only use film containers for egg laying.

in the past I had several cases particular with Histrionica, the tadpoles came ashore too small or handicapped, and with too thin for legs, the same problems do not arise at the same extent when they are fed-up in a bromeliad!

But I will definitely try your type of setup Rich, your results show that it works very well :D

To my own Oophaga species, I use a setup there is very simple, it is constructed whit xaxim on the sides. oak root across the terrarium. tropical leaves and oak wood chips on the bottom, and some bromeliads, I actually stopped using plants other than bromeliads to make it as simplet as possible

I had imagined the same type of simple structure to the Granulifera, just with a little more cooler temprature, and perhaps with the use of the ventilation system if necessary, and less light as you have described in other posts.

Here is a photo of one of my small oophagas setup, dimensions 35X40x45 cm (WDH)
Image
Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)

I did not listen in school, so I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:20 am

morten müller wrote:Hello Rich

I violated your terrariums are just perfect, and I also think your terrariums describes your photos really well, I can see my own ideas will probably not be expressed in a Oophaga Granulifera setup.

I am surprised by the large use of film containers, why not use small Bromeliads? there are so many bromeliads species that can be used from the same locality, I know the frogs in their natural habital not have the same opportunity to use these plants, but my own experience shows that the Biodiversity can be much bigger or even better in a bromeliad, than in a film container, that why I stop using film containers for tadpoles years ago, now I only use film containers for egg laying.

in the past I had several cases particular with Histrionica, the tadpoles came ashore too small or handicapped, and with too thin for legs, the same problems do not arise at the same extent when they are fed-up in a bromeliad!

But I will definitely try your type of setup Rich, your results show that it works very well :D

To my own Oophaga species, I use a setup there is very simple, it is constructed whit xaxim on the sides. oak root across the terrarium. tropical leaves and oak wood chips on the bottom, and some bromeliads, I actually stopped using plants other than bromeliads to make it as simplet as possible

I had imagined the same type of simple structure to the Granulifera, just with a little more cooler temprature, and perhaps with the use of the ventilation system if necessary, and less light as you have described in other posts.

Here is a photo of one of my small oophagas setup, dimensions 35X40x45 cm (WDH)
Image


Hi Morten,
a few points. It is extremely important to clean every bit of chemical out of each and every film can because the residue can and will effect the tads. Sanitizing is paramount.
Film cans don't die, they are UGLY , with a capital UG, but they do not die, fall apart or really have any other negative effect that I can think of. I use many thousands.
Pertaining to lay out of vivs and the animals getting used to us. I have read a bunch of times over the interweb that it is recommended to cover the sides of the vivs or quarantine containers so the animals can not see us, and therefore will not be surprised by us and feel more comfortable. What this actually does is startles the frogs every time they see us looming large as they and we 'look down a tunnel'.
If you want the frogs to get used to our presence early on they need to get used to seeing us at an early age. One major reason I no longer make backgrounds and never cover all those sides of a viv is that if the frogs see me , starting at an early age, , and I see them all the time we get used to each other and there is no 'peakaboo' startled effect. They are not startled by my big mug peering into a hole at them. There are plenty of spots in my vivs for them to hide, if they feel the need. They just don't feel the need as often as when I built vivs which were totally covered on 4 of the six sides.
I don't have high ventilation on any of my vivs.
And lastly, I always try to go as large as I can when building vivs. The smallest viv I have breeding obligates in is 29 gallon. The largest now would be 160, with 600+ in the past. A little over 16 gallons if pretty small, in my opinion. Not lots of room for various micro-climates.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby RichFrye » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:29 am

I should make it clear that I meant to point out that there is not much plant ground cover. The leaf litter is plentiful.
RichFrye wrote:In-situ shots of granny territory to show what I am trying to emulate . Not much ground cover...



MP9O3501.JPG


MP9O3632.JPG
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby pafrogguy » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:03 am

I agree with their being no negative effect of film cans provided they are properly cleaned before use. While I admit, it appears my obligates use broms first, they still use cans as well, and I have never noticed a difference in morphing or survival rate between the two. My vivs tend to be pretty well lit because of using broms. I have a very low brom mortality rate... I'd say maybe I lose 1 in 20 in my tanks. However, all of my vivs form a canopy and my ground stays fairly dark in comparison. I use few ground cover plants, just a few inches of leaf litter and maybe some kind of vine for climbing. I mount all of my broms into wood and backgrounds, and then I will usually mount my vining plants into the top of the background and let them drape over and fill in from top to bottom. It is a little tricky to keep these moist enough to thrive until established, but one trick I have found is to take long pieces of pothos or philos and imbed one end into the top of the background, and the other end in the ground below the background, and they will just take off then. I tend to make "pretty" vivs, but I am going to give Rich's method a try for the Quepos. If nothing else, it will be a hell of a lot easier to pull froglets lol

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Re: Oophaga granulifera setup

Postby morten müller » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:28 am

Hello again

Thanks for reply

I would like to emphasize that all material presented in my terrariums from the nature such as oak root, oak chips, and tropical leaf, are cleaned or heat-treated before use, it is same with the film container, but I can not determiner that pollution could have been my problem ?

I personally violated that bromeliads have several advantages over film containers, First of all. My frogs use these plater for many things besides feet up tadpoles, they are used to sleep in, shit in, breed in.

Another great benefit is that these plants contain large amounts of microclima in their dried leaves, when my young is gone ashore they stay in the bromeliad to eat the first few weeks before going to the bottom of the terrarium, another advantage is that they are closer to the top of the terrarium and in this way can receive UVB light from the first day of their lives, I think it is a matter of taste whether you use Bromelias or film containers. there are a lot of difference ways to keep these species, and I'm sure there are more advantage with film containers as I do not know about, but I breed fine without :D

I do not think the size of the tank is so important for the well being and breeding of the obligates species, as long as they frogs fit together, I only keep my oophagas in pairs, In the same context I very much agree that it is very important to have a good microclima to keep oophaga species the best way, but a good microclima can also consist all over the terrarium and not only in the ground cover, that's why I user xaxim/bromeliads, ant I do not cover my terrarium pages wiht with xaxim so the frogs feel more comfortable, I use xaxim for a better microclima, another advantage is that xaxim maintain a good humidity and provides the good environment for the frogs also, therefore I can easily breed the small oophage species in small terrariums, but agin only in pairs. To the larger species of oophagas I use a setup which is about 32 gallons

Again I must express my doubts about the Granulifera, since I never had the opportunity to work with this species
Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)

I did not listen in school, so I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it


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