Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
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RichFrye
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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:59 pm

Proof would entail doing some more work. Like for example, understanding how different some countries are than others concerning laws about their exports.
For example, Costa Rica, a country which shares a border with Panama demands proof of captive breeding, but before that they demand collection permits, breeding permits, etc.
There are plenty of legit captive or farm projects. It is not our job to get everyone up to speed.

But , the one thing that we all know and those who do their homework agree upon is that not only are the Panama "farms" (where you got your frogs from Chris) a total sham but also there are no limits or regulations on number exported in place.
Panama (where your frogs came from Chris) could learn a few things by other countries standards...but they are not exporting to learn, they are exporting for cash until the faucet gets turned off.

So, enough with the semantics and claims of 'no proof'...what is your bottom line here Chris?
Mine is that there are PLENTY of places, people, projects and the like to send our money to IF we claim to care about the whole situation. Big IF.
Panama and those involved would be one of my very last choices... as it stands now. Pathetic is a term that comes to mind.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby frogs are cool » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:51 pm

RichFrye wrote:Proof would entail doing some more work. Like for example, understanding how different some countries are than others concerning laws about their exports.
For example, Costa Rica, a country which shares a border with Panama demands proof of captive breeding, but before that they demand collection permits, breeding permits, etc.
There are plenty of legit captive or farm projects. It is not our job to get everyone up to speed.

But , the one thing that we all know and those who do their homework agree upon is that not only are the Panama "farms" (where you got your frogs from Chris) a total sham but also there are no limits or regulations on number exported in place.
Panama (where your frogs came from Chris) could learn a few things by other countries standards...but they are not exporting to learn, they are exporting for cash until the faucet gets turned off.

So, enough with the semantics and claims of 'no proof'...what is your bottom line here Chris?
Mine is that there are PLENTY of places, people, projects and the like to send our money to IF we claim to care about the whole situation. Big IF.
Panama and those involved would be one of my very last choices... as it stands now. Pathetic is a term that comes to mind.

It is everyones business to educate those in this hobby that care for its future. I do not get my frogs from panama farms.So get your information straight before making accusations. Every frog in my collection is CB in the US. Again how many WC frogs are in your collection. Just because i dont get to keep WC frogs left over from research projects doesnt give you the right to say i get my frogs from frog farms you have no idea where i get my frogs or what is in my collection. Yes i have an Oophaga that originated from strictly however im not charging $500 for its CB ofspring like some of your WC offspring or calling people and telling them they are selling your pedegree frogs for to little, oh thats right you dont post those prices. My CB Oophaga offspring will be much less than strickly pricing. So yes there are places people to turn for CB frogs for a good price and there are people selling frogs less than WC frogs to help lessen the burden of cheap imports. However that is not something you do, Your a buisness man, im in it for the hobby.
~Master Yoda

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby frogs are cool » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:16 pm

So what if joe blow buys land and gets paperwork to export frogs. Bottom line Rich there are frogs that are continuing to be imported. But is that realy an issue? To me your not worried about importing frogs just the way they are collected. And what happens when the stock is depleated ...go buy more land and expand the operation to include more frogs. They are keeping others off their land to insure their $$$.
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"When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good, you will not, hmmm?"
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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:22 pm

frogs are cool wrote:

It is everyones business to educate those in this hobby that care for its future.


And, for the last decade some of us have been doing just that. Others are not caught up yet...
I should have said that it is not our job to hold hands and spoon feed all information.


frogs are cool wrote: I do not get my frogs from panama farms.So get your information straight before making accusations. Every frog in my collection is CB in the US.


Well, if your seller has CB of whatever these are, it happened fairly quick to get a 1:1 adult pair...but good for that person. That person being the one who got the WC from Panama.


frogs are cool wrote:Again how many WC frogs are in your collection.

You somehow think that this is a WC vs. CB debate. It is not. It is all of us telling you that Panama FR imports are a sham and a travesty. Get it now?
WC can be good. FR can be good. CB can be good. You simply don't know how to tell the difference yet...

frogs are cool wrote:Just because i dont get to keep WC frogs left over from research projects doesnt give you the right to say i get my frogs from frog farms you have no idea where i get my frogs or what is in my collection.


Enlighten us , please.


frogs are cool wrote:Yes i have an Oophaga that originated from strictly however im not charging $500 for its CB ofspring like some of your WC offspring

Are you goofy, or is this just yet another example of your lack of reading comprehension?
Please tell me what Panama pums I sell for $500. Probably the same PAIR of BJs I am selling for $700... :roll: :roll: :roll:



frogs are cool wrote:or calling people and telling them they are selling your pedegree frogs for to little,


Cite this please. You see, usually people call me and ask what I charge , once they get their stock from me to breed. We work together on this to ensure my lines stay established. Responsible breeding and pricing. I don't call people and tell them they are selling ANYTHING for too little.
Any further bullshit on my pricing or lies about my pricing or the situations with my phone calls and this will quickly escalate . You have bad info. But I am not surprised at that.
frogs are cool wrote:oh thats right you dont post those prices.

Sometimes I do, but if you can't understand the difference between $700 for a TRIO and $700 for a PAIR...what good is publically posting prices???
My brother gets frogs for free. My very close friends get frogs for free. Some youngsters who have no money have gotten frogs for free. Same with some adults...Now, pricing is what I want it to be, and the more business you do with me, and the more I like you...and tons of different variables factor into the animals I breed which have no bar code. It that clear? Or do I need to elaborate?

frogs are cool wrote:My CB Oophaga offspring will be much less than strickly pricing. So yes there are places people to turn for CB frogs for a good price and there are people selling frogs less than WC frogs to help lessen the burden of cheap imports. However that is not something you do, Your a buisness man, im in it for the hobby.


Way to put that cart before the horse...
I have established several lines of obligates. I know what I am doing. Be it business or hobby driven, you can not say the same.
You have very little comprehension of the situations we are discussing and you refuse to start working on your own to read up and educate yourself.
It's clear that $$$$$$$ comes up with you more than any topic, while the rest of us are trying to educate you on the facts revolving around Panama and the joke that is their FR animals.
Cheap frogs are just that . People get what they pay for. That's the wonderful thing about a free trade market. Pay crap, get crap. Be it crap info, crap ethics, crap health, crap exporters, crap importers, crap crap crap.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:24 pm

frogs are cool wrote:So what if joe blow buys land and gets paperwork to export frogs. Bottom line Rich there are frogs that are continuing to be imported. But is that realy an issue? To me your not worried about importing frogs just the way they are collected. And what happens when the stock is depleated ...go buy more land and expand the operation to include more frogs. They are keeping others off their land to insure their $$$.

Stop posting and start reading. You really have no clue right now. None.
I am done spoon feeding an adult.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby frogs are cool » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:26 pm

RichFrye wrote:
frogs are cool wrote:So what if joe blow buys land and gets paperwork to export frogs. Bottom line Rich there are frogs that are continuing to be imported. But is that realy an issue? To me your not worried about importing frogs just the way they are collected. And what happens when the stock is depleated ...go buy more land and expand the operation to include more frogs. They are keeping others off their land to insure their $$$.

Stop posting and start reading. You really have no clue right now. None.
I am done spoon feeding an adult.


Of corse you are Rich.
Because its a bunch of BS IMO and im calling it out and no one has anything to back up what they are saying.
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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby Sherman » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:28 pm

frogs are cool wrote:It is everyones business to educate those in this hobby that care for its future. I do not get my frogs from panama farms.So get your information straight before making accusations. Every frog in my collection is CB in the US. Again how many WC frogs are in your collection. Just because i dont get to keep WC frogs left over from research projects doesnt give you the right to say i get my frogs from frog farms you have no idea where i get my frogs or what is in my collection. Yes i have an Oophaga that originated from strictly however im not charging $500 for its CB ofspring like some of your WC offspring or calling people and telling them they are selling your pedigree frogs for to little, oh thats right you dont post those prices. My CB Oophaga offspring will be much less than strickly pricing. So yes there are places people to turn for CB frogs for a good price and there are people selling frogs less than WC frogs to help lessen the burden of cheap imports. However that is not something you do, Your a buisness man, im in it for the hobby.

Weak your argument becomes, when you stray so far from the point.

Please acknowledge the differences between Panama and the other organizations mentioned in this thread.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby hoppityBoppity11 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:35 pm

frogs are cool wrote:
RichFrye wrote:
frogs are cool wrote:So what if joe blow buys land and gets paperwork to export frogs. Bottom line Rich there are frogs that are continuing to be imported. But is that realy an issue? To me your not worried about importing frogs just the way they are collected. And what happens when the stock is depleated ...go buy more land and expand the operation to include more frogs. They are keeping others off their land to insure their $$$.

Stop posting and start reading. You really have no clue right now. None.
I am done spoon feeding an adult.


Of corse you are Rich.
Because its a bunch of BS IMO and im calling it out and no one has anything to back up what they are saying.

Heres a little advice

In all honesty i mean no offense to the following but simply my observations for the past year.

When arguing with rich frye: if you are not --->
Bcstx
Rusted shaklenfor
Ghostvivs
Cbreon
Ericw
Then just consider your points never made and battle lost.

No point in trying to prove anything to anyone chris. Youll prove the biggest point in a few months when you get froglets and post them for those of us who are willing to enjoy them and leave all politics aside and left for the right "authorities" who are licensed to deal with such issues. Word of advise, steer clear from any further arguements and take this for what it is...a hobby. All that should matter is that you are enjoying your laurens and the hell with everyone else.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:36 pm

Sherman wrote:
frogs are cool wrote:It is everyones business to educate those in this hobby that care for its future. I do not get my frogs from panama farms.So get your information straight before making accusations. Every frog in my collection is CB in the US. Again how many WC frogs are in your collection. Just because i dont get to keep WC frogs left over from research projects doesnt give you the right to say i get my frogs from frog farms you have no idea where i get my frogs or what is in my collection. Yes i have an Oophaga that originated from strictly however im not charging $500 for its CB ofspring like some of your WC offspring or calling people and telling them they are selling your pedegree frogs for to little, oh thats right you dont post those prices. My CB Oophaga offspring will be much less than strickly pricing. So yes there are places people to turn for CB frogs for a good price and there are people selling frogs less than WC frogs to help lessen the burden of cheap imports. However that is not something you do, Your a buisness man, im in it for the hobby.

Weak your argument becomes, when you stray so far from the point.

Please acknoledge the differences between Panama and the other organizations mentioned in this thread.


Acknowledgement would entail comprehension of multiple situation in multiple countries. Not gonna happen. Not even close.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:41 pm

hoppityBoppity11 wrote:


In all honesty i mean no offense to the following but simply my observations for the past year.

When arguing with rich frye: if you are not --->
Bcstx
Rusted shaklenfor
Ghostvivs
Cbreon
Ericw
Then just consider your points never made and battle lost.

No point in trying to prove anything to anyone chris. Youll prove the biggest point in a few months when you get froglets and post them for those of us who are willing to enjoy them and leave all politics aside and left for the right "authorities" who are licensed to deal with such issues. Word of advise, steer clear from any further arguements and take this for what it is...a hobby. All that should matter is that you are enjoying your laurens and the hell with everyone else.


You most certainly did mean to offend. Taken. And, I think you need to expand your battle list...
It's very easy to make a post which has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. Try making a point other than 'you will show everyone once you breed them'. Super weak.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

hoppityBoppity11
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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby hoppityBoppity11 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:44 pm

Look, just trying to help someone enjoy what he has and not second guess himself. No pun intended. Really.
RichFrye wrote:
hoppityBoppity11 wrote:


In all honesty i mean no offense to the following but simply my observations for the past year.

When arguing with rich frye: if you are not --->
Bcstx
Rusted shaklenfor
Ghostvivs
Cbreon
Ericw
Then just consider your points never made and battle lost.

No point in trying to prove anything to anyone chris. Youll prove the biggest point in a few months when you get froglets and post them for those of us who are willing to enjoy them and leave all politics aside and left for the right "authorities" who are licensed to deal with such issues. Word of advise, steer clear from any further arguements and take this for what it is...a hobby. All that should matter is that you are enjoying your laurens and the hell with everyone else.


You most certainly did mean to offend. Taken. And, I think you need to expand your battle list...
It's very easy to make a post which has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. Try making a point other than 'you will show everyone once you breed them'. Super weak.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:47 pm

No, you are trolling up a post with garbage. Period. And posting personal attacks. Congrats .
If you have facts revolving around these frogs or the situation at hand, please post. If not, save your belly aching for Dendroboard...
hoppityBoppity11 wrote:Look, just trying to help someone enjoy what he has and not second guess himself. No pun intended. Really.
RichFrye wrote:
hoppityBoppity11 wrote:


In all honesty i mean no offense to the following but simply my observations for the past year.

When arguing with rich frye: if you are not --->
Bcstx
Rusted shaklenfor
Ghostvivs
Cbreon
Ericw
Then just consider your points never made and battle lost.

No point in trying to prove anything to anyone chris. Youll prove the biggest point in a few months when you get froglets and post them for those of us who are willing to enjoy them and leave all politics aside and left for the right "authorities" who are licensed to deal with such issues. Word of advise, steer clear from any further arguements and take this for what it is...a hobby. All that should matter is that you are enjoying your laurens and the hell with everyone else.


You most certainly did mean to offend. Taken. And, I think you need to expand your battle list...
It's very easy to make a post which has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. Try making a point other than 'you will show everyone once you breed them'. Super weak.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

User avatar
frogs are cool
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Re: Oophaga pumilio punta lauren discussion

Postby frogs are cool » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:50 pm

Sherman wrote:
frogs are cool wrote:It is everyones business to educate those in this hobby that care for its future. I do not get my frogs from panama farms.So get your information straight before making accusations. Every frog in my collection is CB in the US. Again how many WC frogs are in your collection. Just because i dont get to keep WC frogs left over from research projects doesnt give you the right to say i get my frogs from frog farms you have no idea where i get my frogs or what is in my collection. Yes i have an Oophaga that originated from strictly however im not charging $500 for its CB ofspring like some of your WC offspring or calling people and telling them they are selling your pedigree frogs for to little, oh thats right you dont post those prices. My CB Oophaga offspring will be much less than strickly pricing. So yes there are places people to turn for CB frogs for a good price and there are people selling frogs less than WC frogs to help lessen the burden of cheap imports. However that is not something you do, Your a buisness man, im in it for the hobby.

Weak your argument becomes, when you stray so far from the point.

Please acknowledge the differences between Panama and the other organizations mentioned in this thread.

Panama doesnt inforce export as some other areas do, so if its regulated than it becomes ok. :D
~Master Yoda

"When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good, you will not, hmmm?"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beyond-Co ... 7315219353


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