Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
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Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby DavisG » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:48 pm

I've heard that this morph is starting to be farmed. What do you guys think of it?

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby cbreon » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:20 pm

My first thought is I hope they are "farmed" responsibly. This locale was just broadcast via a large media source, rather irresponsibly I might add.

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby Sally » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:19 pm

I think it is a very lovely frog if it can be proven it is being imported from someone who can 100% prove it is be collected or raised in a sustainable way that does not impact the native population negatively.

If not, it becomes a sort of butt ugly frog.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...as well as the producer

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:24 pm

Image

I have heard of "new" granny morphs, and have yet to see anything other than an intergrade.
New info good info is good info.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:42 pm

And, this male which has been in use for legitimate exports ( not the mentioned) is not an intergrade, it is a genetic minority from the Quepos area.
Intergrades or genetic recessives does not a new locale make.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:16 am

I have more pics and different angles I can post . I would love to see the same from supposed "new"' morphs.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby DavisG » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:53 pm

RichFrye wrote:I have more pics and different angles I can post . I would love to see the same from supposed "new"' morphs.

I'd love to see them Rich.
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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby thedude » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:31 am

I'm not sure if they are a new population or just a phenotype of a known population, but there is a picture of what looks like one on CRARCs facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 791&type=3
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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby edwardsatc » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:28 am

thedude wrote:I'm not sure if they are a new population or just a phenotype of a known population, but there is a picture of what looks like one on CRARCs facebook page.


I have the paper from Evolution which the NG article was based upon. If anyone wants a copy, shoot me PM with your email address.

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:22 am

Portalon is south of Quepos about a half hour drive and north of Baru about the same half hour drive.
My friend who is breeding a few granny locales for exporting says he has heard that in that area there have been hills that you find Quepos phenotypes on one side and Baru phenotypes on the other. I would venture to say there are also hills with intergrades. Lotter's book has a pic with a handful of intergrade phenotypes.
It would be interesting to see a larger sample size than the one frog.

These are pics of Quepos all from the same exact locale. (BTW, Queps and Baru are general locale names, for specific phynotypes...) The male was separated from other males after I explained the possible aggression issues.

MP9O3897.JPG
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MP9O3889.JPG (194.87 KiB) Viewed 2434 times
MP9O3904.JPG
MP9O3901.JPG
MP9O0131.JPG
Attachments
MP9O0137.JPG
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby hoppityBoppity11 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:41 pm

RichFrye wrote:Portalon is south of Quepos about a half hour drive and north of Baru about the same half hour drive.
My friend who is breeding a few granny locales for exporting says he has heard that in that area there have been hills that you find Quepos phenotypes on one side and Baru phenotypes on the other. I would venture to say there are also hills with intergrades. Lotter's book has a pic with a handful of intergrade phenotypes.
It would be interesting to see a larger sample size than the one frog.

These are pics of Quepos all from the same exact locale. (BTW, Queps and Baru are general locale names, for specific phynotypes...) The male was separated from other males after I explained the possible aggression issues.

MP9O3897.JPG
MP9O3898.JPG
MP9O3889.JPG
MP9O3904.JPG
MP9O3901.JPG
[attachment=1]MP9O0131.JPG

Ok.. Arguing aside and a sencere question rich. Seems like you are very knowledgable with this species. Are you familiar with the ones in punta mira? Ocassionaly we will have them at our doorsteps in our house. The majority seem to look identical to a saltcreek pumilio. White belly,cherry red vents,some green and grey legs. Would these be a phenotype?
Thanks
Z

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:01 am

If Punta Mira is close to Dominical then I would say the phenotype is Baru.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby DavisG » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:17 pm

So, Portalone isn't a true morph, but rather a population of the Quepos phenotype that has slightly more yellow/gold markings?
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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:19 pm

Well, with just a pic and half a map with the word Portalon next to the morph that looks just like my buddy's...I'd say it's pretty hard to tell.
Once again, I would love to see a larger sample size and I have a request out for the GN article.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:21 pm

Well, after reading the NG article I have a few things to add.
The green/Quepos morphs of grannies are far from cryptic compared to other red morphs such as Osa, Golfito, Baru, Uvita, Dominical, Palmar Norte , etc. , etc. In fact, in my findings I would say that the frogs around the central coast (red-orange) to be the most skittish.
I continually hear of "different color morphs" of grannies being found or farmed.
What I continually find is one or two individual colors which are just a bit more yellow than green, a bit more orange than red a bit more blue legged than grey, etc.
The vast majority of the grannies found will fall into these three basic color morphs. As you move north or south from the basic areas the three groups are found it would be natural to find intergrades and drift.
The three groups are as follows;
1.
Far north from around the latitude of Quepos we find the majority of the frogs have green dorsal coloration with blueish lower legs. The legs may be greyish , they may only have blue socks, they may have almost no blue or grey on their legs at all. But the base color morph is green (Kermit the frog green) backs with blue on the lower legs.

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L1050553.JPG


2. From the area around Dominical we find the majority of the frogs with full medium red backs and blue or blue-grey or grey lower legs. Some frogs will be cherry red, others bright orange and still others almost a brick red...but the base color morph for the areas just north and just south of Dominical are red backs with blueish lower legs.

L1050199.JPG


3. From into far northwest Panama where it shares a border with CR on the Pacific side north to past Palmar Norte the base color morph is an orange-red dorsal coloration with blue/teal/green/grey legs , the leg coloration fully covering the legs and moving onto the vent area. Again we find some with fire engine red backs, almost washed out orange backs, cherry red, etc. But the base color is reddish orange with teal colored legs and teal moving up the vent to the lower back.

L1050347.JPG


In each and every area which I would call a mean or centralized morph area you will find a mix ( but still a variant of base color) of colors. None of which I would call a new morph.
Keeping locales different and separate if and when we find a base of mostly mustard , or mostly all teal, or mostly 100% orange, or whatever drift has moved any specific locale to is what we should be concerned with for breeding management. I have yet to find or see documented a sole locale of grannies which consistently varies away from the above three color morphs and patterns I mention here.
I am quite sure there are intergrades, as I have seen those, but as of now the three morphs I mention are the three and only three morphs I know of. I think it would be more than wonderful to be able to read up on and view pics of and maybe even take pics of some new color morphs in new locales. But intergrades and colors on the far end (more red, less red, more green , less green ) of a of well known color morph are not "new".
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:52 pm

DavisG wrote:I've heard that this morph is starting to be farmed. What do you guys think of it?

Image

Could you cite for me who is now calling these mustard looking grannies ( or this one mustad grannie) "Golden Grannies"?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby Philsuma » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:06 pm

Here's a granulifera map:
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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Philsuma wrote:Here's the full granulifera map:

That's the full NG map. I have no idea why they left out or did not research Golfito/Osa/Palmare Norte up to the Baru areas.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby edwardsatc » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:52 pm

They didn't study other populations because they were interested in the color and behavioral gradient between San Rafael and Baru.

Willink, B., Brenes-Mora, E., Bolaños, F. and Pröhl, H. (2013), NOT EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE: COLOR AND BEHAVIORAL VARIATION REVEAL A CONTINUUM BETWEEN CRYPTIC AND APOSEMATIC STRATEGIES IN A POLYMORPHIC POISON FROG. Evolution, 67: 2783–2794. doi: 10.1111/evo.12153

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 3/abstract

Willink et al. data files:

http://datadryad.org/resource/doi:10.5061/dryad.43534

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:01 pm

edwardsatc wrote:They didn't study other populations because they were interested in the color and behavioral gradient between San Rafael and Baru.

Willink, B., Brenes-Mora, E., Bolaños, F. and Pröhl, H. (2013), NOT EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE: COLOR AND BEHAVIORAL VARIATION REVEAL A CONTINUUM BETWEEN CRYPTIC AND APOSEMATIC STRATEGIES IN A POLYMORPHIC POISON FROG. Evolution, 67: 2783–2794. doi: 10.1111/evo.12153

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 3/abstract

Willink et al. data files:

http://datadryad.org/resource/doi:10.5061/dryad.43534

Right, but why not the the behavioral and color gradient between Golfito and Baru? Or the full spectrum from Golfito to Quepos?
You answer is essentially 'because' .
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


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