Ranitomeya lamasi price ?

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Ranitomeya lamasi price ?

Postby mydumname » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:07 pm

Could someone tell me how much these go for if you can get on a list or find a seller? I just want to know what one costs.

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RichFrye
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Postby RichFrye » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:22 pm

I am curious as to how much you think they should be sold for.

This could bring on a very interesting thread.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Postby Rivetchick » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:51 pm

Rich, are you gloating? ::lol:: ~Lauren
1.1.1 Hawaiian Auratus (reticulated), 1.2.2 Leucomelas, 3.2.1 Cobalt Tincs, 1.0.0 Kauluha & Creme / Camo Auratus, 2.0.1 Yelloback Tincs, 0.0.4 Azureus, 1.1.0 Spotted Auratus

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Postby RichFrye » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:54 pm

No, this is an interesting question. And it does pertain to my business.
That's all.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Postby Rivetchick » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:09 pm

I think it is an interesting question as well, especially to go into more detail such as to what creates a frog's value ?

for example, I have read that the type of frog in question is not for beginners, so would a breeder/store want to charge more to deter beginners or the less serious or to communicate the frog's complexity ? is the frog's care more elaborate ? Does that cause a higher/lower price? or is it simply demand and rarity ? This is a great topic and it holds true to almost every hobby whether animal related or not.

Anyone else ?
1.1.1 Hawaiian Auratus (reticulated), 1.2.2 Leucomelas, 3.2.1 Cobalt Tincs, 1.0.0 Kauluha & Creme / Camo Auratus, 2.0.1 Yelloback Tincs, 0.0.4 Azureus, 1.1.0 Spotted Auratus

Neal

Postby Neal » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:23 pm

I think obviously the rarity of a frog has to factor into the price, but also the difficulty in breeding, raising the metamorphs, etc. I don't think a high price is really a deterrant (?), but more of a reflection of how much work is required to produce a frog. It seems to me that in order to aquire a truly rare or "desirable" frog (standard lamasi or other), you have to be friends with someone who breeds them. Few of these frogs tend to show up on pricelists. Maybe I'm wrong, but most of these frogs change hands between fellow froggers, so it's probably pretty hard to judge what they are going for.
Neal

Mantellaprince20

Postby Mantellaprince20 » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:50 am

I would say a frogs price should be based on rarity of course. Also, you have to take into the account of how much the breeder has to spend on all costs to actually get a froglet onto the market. Therefore, harder to breed species are definitely going to have a much higher cost to the breeder, which needs to be offset by the price per frog. When so few of people are actually breeding a species, naturally the price for that frog is going to be on the higher end. Just as how the price of pumilio is dropping like a rock, because more people have had access to them, they are not that forbidden of a species any more, and especially now that more people are having breeding success with them. I do have one question though, what is so great about lamasi? I mean, they are definitely pretty frogs, and I have never seen one in person, but are they really worth that much? They look a lot alike vents to me, but everyone goes googoo eyed just thinking about them, hehe.

Ed Parker

mydumname

Postby mydumname » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:22 pm

Well, in my opinion they are nicer than vents (looks wise). Their rarity would make them more desirable by hobbyists and breeders alike. You would be able to say that you have something not everyone has or can have (price, rarity, etc.). The original question was still not answered as to what they go for. I have heard pretty expensive, but someone please give a numerical figure. The price of this frog and other things, has to do with the law of suply and demand. Supply is low, demand is high, therefore a more expensive price tag. When something first hits market, the price will naturally be high. Example not related to frogs, look at clothes. Prices drop all the time. As more and more of a species of frogs are bred, they will be more readily available. Then their will be greater supply than demand. This will cause a drop in price in order to "move" the frogs. If they don't drop in price, people will not be able to sell them, and next thing you know, you have tons of frogs. No one will buy a common frog for as much as a rare frog, but if the price drops, more people will buy them due to the more affordable price. Their will still be large amounts of these frogs bred, but more will be sold at a lower rate than if the price never changed.

Again, could someone kindly answer the original question? If we know an accurate cost for one of these frogs, the discussion could go into more depth.

Greg

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Postby Rivetchick » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:33 pm

hey greg,

here are 2 websites that offer these frogs. one has prices and the other a waiting list.
http://www.fantasticus.net/Frogsforsale.html
http://www.fryebrothersfrogs.com/page4.htm

good luck, ~Lauren
1.1.1 Hawaiian Auratus (reticulated), 1.2.2 Leucomelas, 3.2.1 Cobalt Tincs, 1.0.0 Kauluha & Creme / Camo Auratus, 2.0.1 Yelloback Tincs, 0.0.4 Azureus, 1.1.0 Spotted Auratus

mydumname

Postby mydumname » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:36 pm

Neither actually offer a price for these frogs. I am talking about the standard lamasi, fantasticus is posting prices on the panguana morph (both).

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Postby RichFrye » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:40 pm

"
Could someone tell me how much these go for if you can get on a list or find a seller? I just want to know what one costs."

Hi Greg.
I can tell you how much they go for, but most waiting lists are either very long or closed. Some people have been/will be on waiting list for years.

I will tell you (within $25) how much they cost, but I really wanted to get some guess(es) as to how much people think they are selling for and how much they should be sold for.
Please do not take this as trolling for a "high" bidder ( I am certainly not). I think that most people guessing would be very surprised at the "going rate" of standard lamasi.

As to them seeming to be very much like vents, they are not. They are not as closely related to vents as many dart species being worked with. There are many differences. Size , dorsal and ventral markings, call, activity, breeding is a BIG one. I also think vents are attractive though.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

mydumname

Postby mydumname » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:47 pm

I have been under the assumption that they are going for something like $500. Wether that figure is accurate or not, I don't know, which is why I am asking. I don't remember where I heard that. Could you PM me a response if you prefer not to post it so that you can see what people believe they are going for?

Mantellaprince20

Postby Mantellaprince20 » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:47 am

I have seen the standard lamasi going for about $150 at the cheapest up to maybe $200. I am pretty sure it was the standards. The panguana seem to be in the same price range. I would love to see some in person, buy no one will ever have them in utah until I bring some in :)

Ed

bgreen

Postby bgreen » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:39 pm

Ok, I had to register for this thread.

I find Rich's post poses an interesting question. I will say Ed hit it close to the price. At least close to what I paid for mine, but with a two year wait on a list. I think the price could go high because of demand, but I think paying over $150 for a frog is nuts if you really think about it. I have done it enough that it doesn't phase me a much anymore (still drives the girlfriend nuts however)

The best way to get rarer frogs is trade, period. A lot of the more rare frogs don't make it on public list because of trades and people offering them to previous customers and friends first.

I know a breeder who is calling other breeders and trying to get them to raise the price of some frogs, because of simple supply vs demand. Think of it like this... would you trade 3 azureus for a standard lamasi? Or how about a sexed pair of azureus for a standard lamasi? Man that raises the value to $250!

If you stay in the hobby and breed some of the more common frogs you will gain the respect of other breeders, and most likely make friends along the way. So to me the standard lamasi cost $150-$200, plus a few years in the hobby to make a few friends just to get on a list.

mydumname

Postby mydumname » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:47 pm

Yeah my figure was way off. I don't know where I heard that. It is kind of surprising about the cost of these frogs though. Compared to other rare frogs, that are slightly more common then these, the price isn't too bad. A breeder trying to get other breeders to raise their prices is another issue. It shows that some people make their living on these frogs, but for most, it is just an awesome hobby.

bgreen

Postby bgreen » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:52 pm

Your figure is closer to a D. lehmanni price, with other strings attached.

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Postby RichFrye » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:05 pm

I usually trade and/or sell to friends at about a $150 value (funny, same price as a retic). I sell them for about $200 to customers I have had little contact with, but have full faith in their ability to keep and raise these rare frogs.
Supply and demand has very little to to with pricing when the frog price reaches the $150-$200 "cap". I can make $1000 of off my intermedius with a third of the effort that goes into a $1000 lamasi return. I am strickly talking business here, I do not want to sound like that's all I think about though. Like Ben said, most of the uber rare stuff gets around via trades.
There are only a handful of people in the U.S. successfully breeding (producing more than ten or twenty a year) lamasi. They are one of the most difficult Darts to get to produce froglets. They sex very female heavy, produce bad eggs for extremely long periods of time and the fact there are only a few bloodlines in the U.S. has potential for producing problems also.
Relatives would be closer to the vanzolini and panuana/biolat family, rather than the vent family.They can be very frustrating ( and very rewarding). They are not beginner's frogs, but as stated , the lists are so long most beginners do not have to fear getting them too soon.
I am working with five breeding groups. Two are doing well, one is a mix of two bloodlines, in hopes of adding some genetic diversity to this cool specie.

Rich
Last edited by RichFrye on Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

wolcottaj

Postby wolcottaj » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:42 pm

Rich,
What are the requirements for keeping and breeding the lamasi? I know this is probably long, but just to get an idea how difficult these really are to breed.
Andy

DartFrog

Postby DartFrog » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:36 pm

Ultimately basic economics will set the price. If there are long list then maybe the price should be higher, that would make your list shorter.

Mike

bgreen

Postby bgreen » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:47 pm

RichFrye wrote:There are only a handful of people in the U.S. successfully breeding (producing more than ten or twenty a year) lamasi. They are one of the most difficult Darts to get to produce froglets. They sex very female heavy, produce bad eggs for extremely long periods of time and the fact there are only a few bloodlines in the U.S. has potential for producing problems also.Rich


I will completely agree with the statement about bad eggs. We have 2 groups and have been getting eggs, but they don't fully develop, but ours are still young. I know one line in the US seems to have problems with "stress". I have heard of 2 different people loss a frog when the tank door opens, like its scares the frog to death.

Andy, these frogs will lay bad eggs over and over and then if the temp gets to high they will stop laying and sometimes they just stop laying for unknown reasons. They may need to be cycled, but who knows. We keep ours just like our fants, imitator, intermedius ect. Mist several times a day and with day time temps around 78-80 and night temps falling to 68-70.


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