Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

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TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ? Do you have confidence in this endeavour ?

Not working at all. Dead Stop.
11
58%
It's a hope and a prayer right now. Barely moving.
8
42%
I think it's working just fine. Active enough right now.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 19

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Philsuma
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Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:38 am

TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it currently working ? Do you have confidence in this endeavour ?

How effective do you see it being right now ?

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Tony
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Re: TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Tony » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:27 am

Time to bury it, the corpse is beginning to stink.

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Re: TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby BcsTx » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:52 am

June 2009 I sent info on my frogs for assesion numbers, still no numbers....
I got cross with Ed with this and told him I would not renew my membership. In the winter of last year they e-mailed me and apologized and gave me a free "Silver" membership. As of today no assesion numbers.

Whats the point of being a member?
-Beth

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afterdark
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Re: TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby afterdark » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:28 am

I signed up to TWI in the first year it was offered with a $20 'student' membership mainly so I could take part in ASN.

The accession process is not nearly as easy as it could be. You have to download and fill out, then re-submit a fairly complicated form. I think this could be simplified with a web-based form that is straightforward to complete (ie, species, date of purchase, seller, extra info).

I submitted one group of frogs and did get accession numbers for them, but they were a while coming. After registering my frogs, I attempted to use the database to search for other members who were working with the frogs I'd registered, but this either isn't an option (what's the point, then?) or was not easily searchable.

From my perspective it's not enough people trying to do WAY too much...
Mike
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Re: TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Michael Lawrence » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:38 am

There's already too much doubt built up in this plan and organization. I would like to see a hobby wide data base but it wont be them who pulls it off. There are flaws in it as well Ive talked to Ed about in the past.

Michael
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Philsuma
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Re: TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:13 pm

I think I offered to help TWI in an email and in person (frog day).....and heard nothing back.

Lee H, in charge of ASN isn't even active or working with frogs anymore, I believe. That's a head scratcher right there.

A good thing, is that the magazine - Leaf Litter is looking very nice and raises some $$ in a hard copy format.

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Re: TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Philsuma » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:54 pm

I'm going to take a guess here....

My guess is that ANY initiative that requires people to "log" or report exactly what animals they keep and where they all go, is just not gonna be well received.

90% of any exotic animal hobby is going to balk at any attempt at a hard record of what they have ect. Just look around at all the paranoia, law enforcement scariness and new bills / laws against ownership trying to be introduced at every level.

I think most people are saying....ehhhh....no thanks. Don't ask, don't tell.

As always.....thoughts ?

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hkspowers
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Re: TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby hkspowers » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:25 am

I tried a few times to become a steward, which btw is a very poor approach to catalog ALL amphibians in captivity because according to them they must review your application first then approve it. Well if that's the case many people who don't get approved will be left out, or in my case waiting on approval for a long ass time now to register their animals. I joined up for the sole purpose of being able to register my animals and also see data on others to see whats out there almost a year now and still waiting for approval ( I have recently re-applied still waiting on that one also.) and for the first six months or so the forums were down. So basically I paid for some nice leaf litter PDF's which sincerely are nice but not the reason I joined. I will not be renewing my membership.

Now I tried frog tracks that was extremely easy still has some problems (mainly people not using it) but at least it's not a pain in the ass to use or access.

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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Philsuma » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:20 pm

Hmmm...I'm seeing where some people are laying the ENTIRE blame for the failures of these programes squarely on the 'Hobbyists'....

Again...I beg to differ.

The 'Blame the Hobbyists" for everything has GOT to be getting old now, isn't it ? :roll:

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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby RichFrye » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:17 pm

When the committee member/board member who sits on every TWI committee excepting the membership board informs me via email that my institution frogs, which I was responsible for captive breeding and helping to save WC adult parents, will be considered by him to be stolen if I do not provide him paperwork for them, and he takes it a big formal step farther than that...the whole of TWI/ASN can rot.

Spite, god complex and board/committee membership for a conservation based group for our hobby are not a healthy mix.

TWI also needs update their current board and committee list. I know of people on that list who no longer wish to be volunteers , and have not been for awhile.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Roadrunner » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:41 am

I think it will never take off if people have to randomly have their frogs picked for them by different people and they aren't sexed. You would have to buy 2 groups and hope that you get a female out of one group and a male out of another. Then you have to make sure each group is clean( or has the same things) before introducing them. I just see it as too complicated and too expensive for people to pay 2 shipping charges and get 3 animals from each person just to get a pair.
I guess I'm having trouble w/ exactly how it works also. Do you have to have random frogs chosen for you or can you pick your pairs and add them? Confusing and complicated from my perspective.
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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:58 am

TWI??? Totally inept at best. I've volunteered several times, and never heard anything back. Maybe there is no need for volunteers because they really don't do anything. Could someone please explain to me how their "show" Microcosm which is a celebration of all things kept in glass boxes, including fish and insects, helps amphibian conservation which is TWI's reason for existing?
Jon - Ft. Myers, FL
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Philsuma
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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:25 pm

I've met Ron S at least twice.

Tim P. and Ed K. as well.

I'm a big fan of 'momentum' and pushing forward. Right now, TWI seriously lacks momentum.

I've personally offered to help TWI with WHATEVER it needs. We host their banners here for free and promote Frog Day and Microcosm. My offer still stands, but Ron needs to contact me. A lot of people, are 'turned down' for their offers of help and I think that's one of the image related problems / P.R issues that that organization suffers from as well.

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Sherman
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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Sherman » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:23 pm

ASN is done as we know it. They are "dismantling" the stewardship/registration portion of the program.
TWI is more than ASN, and does good work. They are currently in a state of reconfiguration and are soliciting new people and ideas.

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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:27 pm

We shall see....we shall see.

I am cautiously optimistic.

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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby RichFrye » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:27 am

Sherman wrote:ASN is done as we know it. They are "dismantling" the stewardship/registration portion of the program.
TWI is more than ASN, and does good work. They are currently in a state of reconfiguration and are soliciting new people and ideas.


I wonder if they will refund the yearly payments they collect from those who had been waiting years for frog registration? Those who have largely joined and paid to register their frogs.

It really makes me think when people (as I have seen for years, ALL the ASN years) TRY to volunteer to help with obvious problems they have , just to be told to "register your frogs and test for chytrid" as the only help TWI/ASN wants from other potential volunteers.
I don't get it. They use an excuse that they are all volunteer run (in looking at all the boards and committees it looks like an army...A HUGE FROG ARMY) but when we ask to help them for free we are turned away...

If THAT particular attitude is not changed nothing in ASN/TWI will ever change. Too many committees, too little forward dart movement.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

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Philsuma
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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:09 pm

I'm also concerned that they are trying too hard for 'Academic Credibility' at the consequence of alienating the hobbyist which are the life-blood of ANY Herpetoculture issue in my opinion. I've seen many many private hobbyists with little to no scientific or appreciable academic background contribute more to the furtherance of a hard to breed species of animal and 'run rings around' people with fancy degrees.

Not that I am against higher, formalized education, as I'm personally jumping back into it in my middle age. just that any organization should temper itself and not 'sell out' to credentials and fancy letters behind peoples names.

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Re: Poll - TWI Taxon Management / ASN - is it working ?

Postby thedude » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:44 am

Rusty_Shackleford wrote:TWI??? Totally inept at best. I've volunteered several times, and never heard anything back. Maybe there is no need for volunteers because they really don't do anything. Could someone please explain to me how their "show" Microcosm which is a celebration of all things kept in glass boxes, including fish and insects, helps amphibian conservation which is TWI's reason for existing?


Jon, the money from the shows goes into conservation, not ASN. Which is done for by the way. They just announced they will be providing financial aid for the collection and breeding of 3 critically endangered frogs in chile. It's a small organization that is based mainly in the west, being fueled by busy people in a small hobby. Stuff takes time. Spite about certain people won't help, hopefully any problems in the past can be fixed in the future.
Adam Hess


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