Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

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Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Yes - Seen it happen or have knowledge it happened to a hobbyist
21
43%
Maybe - no hard evidence, yet
22
45%
Doubt it - Never heard of it happening
6
12%
 
Total votes: 49

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Philsuma
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Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:13 pm

Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv - water feature, shallow or deep pond, pool, water fall, drip wall, Brom, film can,ect.

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:56 pm

Frogs drowning in black film cans with high water levels and mounted up - top level.....

I've heard of 2 instances of this recently - a vent and a pum dead in a high water volume, upright film can.

To be clear, and not to be alarmist....but I think it can happen more often that one thinks.

Here's the scenario:

The upright black film can is dark, obviously and is near a mister and collects a lot of water - 3/4 or more full. The frog enters, possibly to escape another frog or otherwise quickly heads to the bottom of the film can and circles and bumps around trying to go deeper or pop out of the water, never surfacing.

A lot of animals, turtles especially will seek to dive straight down and keep going until the hit bottom and then scurry around to find a place to jam themselves under, like a rock, wood feature ect and then seek to wait out the threat before surfacing.

I think dart frogs may react similarly.

Food for thought.

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Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby blocker institute » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:09 pm

Can easily get caught downward into a water filled brom and drown as well.

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:16 pm

blocker institute wrote:Can easily get caught downward into a water filled brom and drown as well.


DD's amazing auto-correct changed 'brim' to 'brom"....assuming that's whatcha wanted ?

Brom drownings ? Yeah...I guess it could happen, but I've never heard of it. The 2 black film cans....both of those were different hobbyists and they related their findings to me in personal communication.

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Eric Walker » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:49 pm

Just had a friend lose an adult imitator, I think, about a month or so ago, in a filled almost upright filmcan.

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Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby blocker institute » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:51 pm

We had a Campana froglet have that exact scenario happen just last year (brom drown). Went in head first and couldn't make it back out. Glad to see we experienced yet another thing not all the vets have!

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:00 pm

blocker institute wrote: Glad to see we experienced yet another thing not all the vets have!


That's why we're all (forum) here ! 8)

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:24 pm

I've never had this happen to me and I hope I never do. With so few reports from so many froggers it has to be a rare event. I suppose if a frog can break a leg jumping than it could certainly drown. Henceforth I will never name any of my frogs Whitney or Natalie.
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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 02, 2012 1:06 pm

Not so much rare....as..possibly preventable. Most people that don't know much about the animal (dart frogs) think they will never drown - like they are closer to fish, and it's just possible...that's all.

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Wed May 02, 2012 1:24 pm

Phil, I think this is preventable 99.99% of the time. Even if you do have a water feature or a container with water, it's easy to not fill it to a depth where it could pose a potential drowing hazard. If using a false bottom, be careful to make absolutely sure there is NO WAY that a frog could make it down into the false bottom. The tough situation is a frog potentially drowning in a brom. Perhaps much like humans, stupidity is often eliminated from the gene pool.
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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 02, 2012 1:37 pm

Rusty_Shackleford wrote: Perhaps much like humans, stupidity is often eliminated from the gene pool.


Bingo....oh, and the human part....we wish !

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby markpulawski » Wed May 02, 2012 9:47 pm

I had a female Retic dive into the center of a brom when I was leaving on a trip one morning, when I got back she was still there...and quite obviously dead.

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby thedude » Thu May 03, 2012 2:14 am

I've never had a drowning (Even newly morphed froglets) and don't really worry about it. I only have water features in tanks for Ameerega and Phyllobates, which both utilize them in nature. Dendrobatids can swim quite well. The key is to making sure there is an escape route for them.
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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby RichFrye » Thu May 03, 2012 12:17 pm

Yes, animals which have lungs to process air can and do at times drown .
I have yet to read or hear of a single person which has visually seen a drowning or can prove a dart drowning.
Frogs are amphibians and can hold their breaths for very, very long periods of time.
Frog go to water at times when they are not well. Sometimes they do not get better, but stay in that same water area...
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:45 pm

I firmly believe drowning in vivariums is uncommon, but FAR from rare. It definitely happens on occasion.

A likely culprit - film cans full of water...much more so than water features. I think a dark (black) film can full of water can present a possible 'maze' and the frog keeps trying to dive and skirt the bottom, never surfacing.

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby crayy8 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:27 pm

A naturalist I know had a few cobalt tincs and one of them did drown. In my opinion it was bound to happen due to the way the tank was set up. It was a small 10 gallon tank which had a piece of glass that divided the tank up horizontally, making the top for land and the bottom full of water. So when the frogs went in the water there was only a small area for them to surface, the rest was covered by glass where the land was. I am very surprised to here though that some thumbnail species have drown in film canisters and broms! never imagined that could happen!
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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby Philsuma » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:57 pm

your friend was....not much of a naturalist, it seems.

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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby crayy8 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:07 pm

No hes a great naturalist. The Tincs and tank were given to him because the owner did not want them anymore. It was a bad decision on his part to not immediately move them to a new enclosure but he was preparing a new habitat for them. It was unfortunate that the one drowned before he could move them.
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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby RichFrye » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Just to put the film can drowning theory to the task,
I am conservatively estimating my total film can usage (with water in them) at around 4000 cans, very conservatively. I am at the height of my collect numbers now, but even at , say 5 years ago, I was around 2000 cans, conservatively.
I have never once found an adult frog drown in one.
Ten years in the hobby, thousands of cans, used in every single viv, not a drowning found, at all, ever.

Did I mention that they are amphibians which love water and hold their breaths very well for long periods of time? Many also seem to be able to climb vertical glass walls very easily too.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

Postby RichFrye » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:20 pm

Also, I'd like to hear from those who said they witnessed a drowning. Which means they sat back and enjoyed a death without stepping in. Maybe they have video instead of actual in-person spectating?
Anecdotal info only goes so far.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


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