Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

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Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Yes -Everyone should test
12
48%
Maybe - Only businesses and big sellers should test
9
36%
No
4
16%
 
Total votes: 25

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Philsuma
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Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:44 am

Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby cbreon » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:12 am

I think this is going to be a mandatory USFW requirement to transport/ship frogs across state lines within the next few years.

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:40 am

Just as potential new gun laws increase gun sales....the mere threat of impending legislation and restrictions just may increase sales for importers.

Some thoughts.

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:53 am

I am thinking this sort of thing -bad press, would be just the encouragement that certain enterprising businesses would seize and capitalize from.

Offer to send a Vet/Lab report with your frogs that you sell and ship. A frog pedigree / birth certificate / document ??

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Armson » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:34 pm

Philsuma wrote:I am thinking this sort of thing -bad press, would be just the encouragement that certain enterprising businesses would seize and capitalize from.

Offer to send a Vet/Lab report with your frogs that you sell and ship. A frog pedigree / birth certificate / document ??


I would think someone would have thought of this before now.

It would be really nice to be so proactive in this hobby that we are able to tell USFW that we have all but eradicated both of these diseases from the CB dart frog hobby.

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:30 pm

I just came up with it...just now. 8)

Seriously. I don't know of any such effort.

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby joneill809 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:21 pm

Mandatory testing...I think there are enough shady characters in this hobby they would find a way to fake the results. It comes down to ethics, honesty, and knowing your breeder. I would negotiate a group rate for my testing / customer tests. Offering the results is good, but saying "test for yourself, if you go here, they will knock 10% off the cost if you use this code". Encourage others to test and share. Setup a section on your site with all results, outcomes, and if necessary, steps taken to remediate. Anyhow, I think the onus is on the buyer as much as the seller.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:42 pm

Naming names is INDEED important. It shames the person trafficking in diseased frogs and serves as a warning to others - dissuade them from cutting corners or bad husbandry.

now for the OTHER side of the same coin...

Who is to say there is 100% proof of the results.

Are there breathalyzers that sometimes give inaccurate or false readings ?

Have additional tests and labs produced different results for DNA testing that allowed innocent people to be released from prison and have their sentences overturned ?

Yes and Yes.

This is arguably the MOST complex and 'un-easy' situation for the hobby to deal with, currently.

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby TheLordsPorter » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:52 pm

Regular testing is a good idea if the breeder handles frogs prone to disease or flips with a steady influx of frogs from the outside. As a breeder looking to make a run at this for the long term, we pay very close attention to our stock because it is our future and it is the good name we are building. Others may not have the highest quality control or standards as we do and maybe they don't care, but everyone knows that cannot last. So, where is the responsibility and who has it? It is on all of us, large and small, across the board. For us, our stocks have been "brewing" carefully for over a year and we have no need to flip. There are no disease issues and perfect health, no stale food, and no messy enclosures. On the commerce side of things, we as a community must help one another. For us, we are eager to give back to the hobby and hopefully here is the place. Still, I think everyone who has sold or will sell a frog cannot be against the commercial side, but frequently step back from the business side and take their own temperature asking why do I/we do what I/we do? If it is money, then this is definitely the wrong business move. If it is a happiness issue and that unexplainable something a person is led to do like us and our family, then that is the wisp of passion. Hopefully, that passion leads to a simple child-like love for these frogs and that, to me, is the first unbending, mandatory requirement that mandates testing when needed, otherwise this is just work...! Be responsible, test as needed, always! Thanks for the opportunity to chime in...my first post!

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:49 pm

As with EVERY poll here on DD....your answer is anonymous. I can't even access it, as an admin.

Don't be afraid to vote.

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Armson » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:25 am

Where I wasn't a huge fan of Dendrobati because of some of the banter on this site. I am applauding them for being the first one to step up.


-Byron

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Philsuma » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:15 am

Indeed...kudos to the businesses and hobbyists jumping out and starting to make this a husbandry norm.

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:17 am

Armson wrote:Where I wasn't a huge fan of Dendrobati because of some of the banter on this site. I am applauding them for being the first one to step up.


-Byron

Without having to wade through fifteen pages of a DB flufffest, would you mind telling me what Brad from Maine and his wife are the first to "step up" to, besides duplicity as an introduction to the hobby?
I bring up the duplicity issues due to the fact that MANY things can , have been, and will continue to be faked and lied about...
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Armson » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:45 am

RichFrye wrote:
Armson wrote:Where I wasn't a huge fan of Dendrobati because of some of the banter on this site. I am applauding them for being the first one to step up.
-Byron

Without having to wade through fifteen pages of a DB flufffest, would you mind telling me what Brad from Maine and his wife are the first to "step up" to, besides duplicity as an introduction to the hobby?
I bring up the duplicity issues due to the fact that MANY things can , have been, and will continue to be faked and lied about...


They are offering free Rana and Chytrid tests for orders over $300 and $30 for orders under.
They are the first vendor to publicly offer tested frogs and offer the option to have frogs sent with test results.

Of course there are 100 ways to play devils advocate for this and it is most definitely a sales tactic. But it's a step in the right direction.

-Byron

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:56 am

Armson wrote:
RichFrye wrote:
Armson wrote:Where I wasn't a huge fan of Dendrobati because of some of the banter on this site. I am applauding them for being the first one to step up.
-Byron

Without having to wade through fifteen pages of a DB flufffest, would you mind telling me what Brad from Maine and his wife are the first to "step up" to, besides duplicity as an introduction to the hobby?
I bring up the duplicity issues due to the fact that MANY things can , have been, and will continue to be faked and lied about...


They are offering free Rana and Chytrid tests for orders over $300 and $30 for orders under.
They are the first vendor to publicly offer tested frogs and offer the option to have frogs sent with test results.

Of course there are 100 ways to play devils advocate for this and it is most definitely a sales tactic. But it's a step in the right direction.

-Byron


If they use people's (mine for example...) line names and refuse to offer info on who they acquired the founding stock from, how the hell can we expect them to be open about testing?
When one enters the hobby in a duplicitous manner and when one deals with the people Brad and Marta do on a regular basis I think I would want a full video tape of the testing on my specific frogs and/or as much indisputable proof of lineage and health before I ever considered dealing this those two. And I am easing off on my writing my full feelings...
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby frogfreak » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:57 am

While I agree that people should be testing their collections, pre-testing and sending the results to people could give them a false sense of security and IMO will be less likely to test themselves.

Noble, but could backfire...
Glenn

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:00 pm

frogfreak wrote:While I agree that people should be testing their collections, pre-testing and sending the results to people could give them a false sense of security and IMO will be less likely to test themselves.

Noble, but could backfire...

Anything can be faked, and in time will be.
On a different note, but still worth mentioning, there are those who get one lone fecal and declare their frog "clean" ...what does this prove?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby frogfreak » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:05 pm

True. I still feel its up to the buyer to test their frogs. I test, but would still want buyers to test after the stress of shipping.

Which reminds me, I'm due.
Glenn

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby Armson » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:29 pm

frogfreak wrote:While I agree that people should be testing their collections, pre-testing and sending the results to people could give them a false sense of security and IMO will be less likely to test themselves.

People do this now... this is simply being lazy.
RichFrye wrote:Anything can be faked, and in time will be.

This is a circular argument. There are lots things that 'could' be done.
RichFrye wrote:On a different note, but still worth mentioning, there are those who get one lone fecal and declare their frog "clean" ...what does this prove?

People that just do the minimum are going to suck no matter what hobby they are in.
RichFrye wrote:If they use people's (mine for example...) line names and refuse to offer info on who they acquired the founding stock from

Which is why I wasn't a huge fan.

In their defense, you did go after them pretty hard and were quite intimidating.
of course there was one really easy way to shut you up and avoiding it just made them look a tad bit shady.

-Byron

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Re: Should testing Dart Frogs for disease, be mandatory ?

Postby RichFrye » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:49 pm

Armson wrote:
RichFrye wrote:Anything can be faked, and in time will be.

This is a circular argument. There are lots things that 'could' be done.
RichFrye wrote:On a different note, but still worth mentioning, there are those who get one lone fecal and declare their frog "clean" ...what does this prove?

People that just do the minimum are going to suck no matter what hobby they are in.
RichFrye wrote:If they use people's (mine for example...) line names and refuse to offer info on who they acquired the founding stock from

Which is why I wasn't a huge fan.

In their defense, you did go after them pretty hard and were quite intimidating.
of course there was one really easy way to shut you up and avoiding it just made them look a tad bit shady.

-Byron

Not an argument Byron, there is nothing to argue . It was a factual statement , period.
Yes, it will be very hard to shut me up about assholes in the hobby who , as their opening 'howdy' lie to me and try to get something out of me in a deceptive manner.
You will also find me hard to shut up when someone is using my name as a selling point and refuses to prove the animals' lineage .
The way and people they get their frogs from also may raise a few eyebrows...
The smarmy way they market 'their' frogs is a matter of opinion , I guess, but the facts that they are hiding things from the public and operate in a way less than honest and open manner is not only shady, it is what some of us work very hard to quash in our hobby. Although they seem WAY more on the business end than hobby end.
Free cold pacs , yo.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


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