Poll - Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

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Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

No
6
14%
Depends....please post your reason(s)
4
9%
Yes
33
77%
 
Total votes: 43

frogface
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby frogface » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:52 pm

I voted 'depends' but I don't know how to articulate my reasons why. Probably similar to Rich's post. I guess I'm thinking that it depends on who you want your audience to be. If you want to sell a certain frog to only people with experience with that frog, then you won't need to list a price. Those people will already know the ballpark figure and will PM for details.

But then you run the risk of 1000 other froggers, who aren't familiar with the morph, to PM you for more info.

I dunno.
Do you know where your frogs have been?

edwardsatc
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby edwardsatc » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:54 pm

RichFrye wrote:Anybody who supposedly cares about the hobby care to list what's the most important thing to them when buying a frog?
Seems to many it's all about the price.
Why no poll for health , lineage, age, husbandry practises, ect. ect.? Stuff that really matters down the line.

It's a bit telling.


Just because someone wants to know the price upfront does not mean they are not equally or more concerned with the things you outline. So no, not telling. None of those things mean anything is someone can't afford the frogs in question.

Donn

jellyman
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby jellyman » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:03 pm

RichFrye wrote:Anybody who supposedly cares about the hobby care to list what's the most important thing to them when buying a frog?
Seems to many it's all about the price.
Why no poll for health , lineage, age, husbandry practises, ect. ect.? Stuff that really matters down the line.

It's a bit telling.


lineage poll:
polls-f63/poll-frog-pedigree-how-important-to-you-t4420.html

health/husbandry poll':
polls-f63/poll-have-you-ever-tested-your-dart-frogs-for-parasites-t2427.html

husbandry poll:
polls-f63/do-you-now-have-or-have-you-ever-had-a-mixed-tank-t4790.html

lineage poll:
polls-f63/poll-where-do-you-buy-your-frogs-t4577.html

health poll:
polls-f63/poll-what-is-your-quarantine-practice-t366.html

husbandry poll:
polls-f63/poll-which-size-vivarium-is-best-t1457.html

lineage poll:
polls-f63/poll-twi-taxon-management-asn-is-it-working-t5185.html

husbandry poll:
polls-f63/water-feature-how-necessary-t5119.html

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RichFrye
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby RichFrye » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:51 pm

edwardsatc wrote:
RichFrye wrote:Anybody who supposedly cares about the hobby care to list what's the most important thing to them when buying a frog?
Seems to many it's all about the price.
Why no poll for health , lineage, age, husbandry practises, ect. ect.? Stuff that really matters down the line.

It's a bit telling.


...None of those things mean anything is someone can't afford the frogs in question.

Donn


I've given away quite a few frogs. That's pretty affordable. But I don't do it over the public forums.
Affording the frogs means nothing if they die or are a nightmare , or the deal is shit, or the breeding is impossible, or , or , or...

Yes, telling.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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RichFrye
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby RichFrye » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:53 pm

So which of these are stated as they should be on a "FOR SALE" (my point) add Jelly?... Exactly.


jellyman wrote:
RichFrye wrote:Anybody who supposedly cares about the hobby care to list what's the most important thing to them when buying a frog?
Seems to many it's all about the price.
Why no poll for health , lineage, age, husbandry practises, ect. ect.? Stuff that really matters down the line.

It's a bit telling.


lineage poll:
polls-f63/poll-frog-pedigree-how-important-to-you-t4420.html

health/husbandry poll':
polls-f63/poll-have-you-ever-tested-your-dart-frogs-for-parasites-t2427.html

husbandry poll:
polls-f63/do-you-now-have-or-have-you-ever-had-a-mixed-tank-t4790.html

lineage poll:
polls-f63/poll-where-do-you-buy-your-frogs-t4577.html

health poll:
polls-f63/poll-what-is-your-quarantine-practice-t366.html

husbandry poll:
polls-f63/poll-which-size-vivarium-is-best-t1457.html

lineage poll:
polls-f63/poll-twi-taxon-management-asn-is-it-working-t5185.html

husbandry poll:
polls-f63/water-feature-how-necessary-t5119.html
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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RichFrye
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby RichFrye » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:01 pm

Jelly, I think you'll find it hard to dig out a poll which asks
"Should Frog sale advertisements include Water features " ...
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Philsuma
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:24 am

edwardsatc wrote:
Philsuma wrote:The economy is still very much in the crapper. That said, I think we need to protect the breeder, and thus, the hobby. Not saying either stance is right or wrong, I'm more inclined to grant all the "leeway" that the breeder wants and needs to help him stay alive.


What is this "leeway"? Sounds like you are saying that if additional financial gain can be made by hiding the price and using some leeway in pricing to take advantage of people, then that's okay to "protect the breeder". How is the consumer, who is facing the same economic times, protected by these practices?

Donn


The "leeway" is my allowing ads to be posted without the prices unlike the other forum. Just another "choice" for the breeder.

A frog breeder who indulges in the "business" of selling frogs can sell them in any many he or she see's fit. Ads,forums, word of mouth, pics, no pics, copious info...or less. Whatever methods and means they use will define them and their way of business. If it works...it works....if it doesn't.....they will fail and less and less people will by their frogs. The hobby will, in this regard, take care of itself.

AND....

Rest assured the vendor feedback is always here....waiting....ready to do what it needs to do to police the hobby. If someone gets bent over and feels cheated or taken advantage of by any vendor of an advertisement....then can post feedback. I think that's a fair "check and balance" to having the option of price advertisement or no price advertisement.

again....this is a poll and a proper discussion IMO. I do not have a firm opinion on this, YET, and I appreciate the discussion from both sides.

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:32 am

RichFrye wrote:Jelly, I think you'll find it hard to dig out a poll which asks
"Should Frog sale advertisements include Water features " ...


^^^ That would be a very silly poll IMO.

This poll, however, seems very pertinent as evidenced by the voting and attendance.

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RichFrye
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby RichFrye » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:37 am

So hits are what make something pertinent now? Hmmm...Dendro must be VERY pertinent then , as proven by their awesome 'T-Dome' and 'Lounge' attendance and input. Great yardstick.



What would NOT be silly is a poll like;

'Should frog sale advertisements include frogs' ...health information'
' " " " " " ... age and breeding history'
' " " " " " .... lineage '
' " " " " " ... any one of many more important things which matter down the line , far and away more pertinent than simply price alone'.


My point is that by the poll and personal attacks alone (thanks Donn, spot on as usual. Your contributions to the hobby continue to warm my cold , cold heart.) it would seem that it's far more important to save those few bucks on a dart (darts which should ALL live over a decade. Look up 'bang for the buck people' and compute the extra few pennies per day you save bargain hunting ) thna it is to know exactly what's going on with the frogs' offered state of well being , now and down the line.

If someone can not afford a frog, me simply deciding to post what I plan to charge will not change a thing. They can or can not afford something. BUT, if someone contacts me and my price for their personal situation is that that they can not afford the stated price, I have been known to drop the selling price to help out . But you have to let me know what each situation is. It's called good communication.

Most people have a general idea of what my frogs sell for. And if they don't, they quite most likely have not been in the hobby long enough, or they are not expereinced enough to take on stuff which is so out of the realm of their guesswork.

And Donn, what you say you perceive ( "shady and full of themself" ) as being bad business, I look at as good hobby. I'm much more concerned about good hobby than good business. As you should understand by the amount of people I tell to take a flying leap. Take a flying leap Donn. And have a great weekend. I'm going to go out and put up a bunch of my frogs on a highest bid wins auction and sell to whomever wins the bids. Quite the opposite of what I do now, super capitalistic , but I've seen the light.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Ulisesfrb
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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby Ulisesfrb » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:57 pm

I believe it's up to the seller if he wants to post the price or not. After all, posts with prices probably get more responses. Now, as far as Rich. I'll vouch for him. The first time I ever contacted him to purchase frogs, he actually did what he states in his last post. He accomodated the situation and lowered the price. Gave me an awesome deal, so I honestly believe that he is indeed not posting prices for reasons he states, and not because he's trying to be shady and rip off anyone.
Ulises

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby RanaVenenosa » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:43 pm

I understand where Rich is coming from with special pricing. I am a semi-professional fine artist. Not something I do for a living, for me its pleasure. Painting is expensive however, and I need to sell pics to cover cost of hobby plus gain some extra cash for travel, painting trips, replace equipment etc. When I sell a painting, like Rich selling frogs he raises, there are people who love art for art sake and are moved by a particular painting... if they were wealthy they would pay $$$ if they could, but they general cant afford such a luxury... these situations are where i personally like to bless people and either give them the pic or offer to their budget. The more art I can sell at fair price, the more generous I can afford to be in other situations. Since art is unique, its more difficult to price than a frog - I realize that; however, the principle of pricing is the same. People ask how much are your paintings. I will give a range, but I am usually vague. I try to focus conversation around their interest in subject matter, size of painting they want etc. This might parallel to dealers like Rich catering to a potential or existing customer who has a certain tank size or species they hope to work with or experience level they have. Again, it goes way beyond price, its about the entire end to end experience. As I mentioned in my first post on this thread - the imperative of disclosing price in advertising begs the question of its priority compared to other factors.
Scott - North Dallas

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:35 pm

Ulisesfrb wrote: so I honestly believe that he is indeed not posting prices for reasons he states, and not because he's trying to be shady and rip off anyone.


No one here said anything about anyone ripping people off. There is no such thing as "ripping someone off" - price stated or no price stated. We are talking a whole different animal here.

This isn't about "hits" or attendance for this forum either. And even though the advertisement policy currently here on Dart Den runs contrary to DB...it ain't about us vs them either. I am honestly trying to get a grasp around a hobby business practice.

If someone patronizes Rich and then months or even years later, decides that their business dealing and prices arrived at, were not satisfactory, they simply won't continue to buy from him in the future.

Let's stop the "ripping off" talk as it's just not applicable to this issue. Instead, lets think how this issues affects new hobbyists and if there is ANY drawback to that demographic, for instance.

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby frogfreak » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:57 pm

Philsuma wrote:Instead, lets think how this issues affects new hobbyists and if there is ANY drawback to that demographic, for instance.


Could you clarify this, Phil. I don't understand how "Not posting prices" could affect a new hobbyist. There are tons of way to figure out what the price of a frog should be. Numerous sites to look at pricing too.
Glenn

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:08 pm

frogfreak wrote:
Philsuma wrote:Instead, lets think how this issues affects new hobbyists and if there is ANY drawback to that demographic, for instance.


Could you clarify this, Phil. I don't understand how "Not posting prices" could affect a new hobbyist. There are tons of way to figure out what the price of a frog should be. Numerous sites to look at pricing too.


Glenn,

To me, a new hobbyist doesn't have quite the grasp or resources to be able to have a good idea on prices. THEN throw in price differences for Proven, Sexed, odd morphs, what have you......and they are most certainly disadvantaged early in the hobby. After all, thats the very definition of "newbie" or new hobbyist = not knowing much, right ?

I'm just trying to look at this from both sides.

Maybe there is a difference? Perhaps the common stuff - tincs, auratus ect is more easily accounted for, and the more rare stuff - obligates, can or should be in a different sales format ?

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby RichFrye » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:28 pm

Pricing adds for newbies is a moot point 99% of the time in my case. Those who bitch are generally those who know they'll not be working with my frogs . :wink:
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby frogfreak » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:07 pm

That would be tough to do. Define rare...

Bakhuis Tincs were everywhere up here 3-5 years ago, I'm told. I'm the only one breeding them that I know of. At least that I've seen posting. So, once again they seem to be rare. It doesn't have to be an obligate to be rare either.
Glenn

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Re: Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby Natures Gems » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:48 pm

although it is hard to define what would be considered a common and widely available morph today and what would be common a year or two from now, maybe some breeders could post a range of prices per morph in the easier to find morphs.
for example juveniles. 3 month old tincs like suriname cobalts and azureus at the present time.they certainly aren't hard to find morphs so why not list juvie prices and to inquire about sub-adult, sexable adult frogs, and also to inquire about pricing for harder to find morphs like pums.

it would give the absolute beginner to intermediate froggers some guidelines not only to what they should be seeing in the hobby, but an individual breeders frogs.

yes they can check sites like patrick nabors" and sean stewart"s site for pricing on juveniles for rough guidelines but that wouldn't tell the beginner what an individual's price may be. but reputation of the breeder should be important as well.also a beginner may not have come across patrick or seans site, or another froggers site, to have seen pricing previously. so if they were viewing a breeders site for the first time with no pricing they may be reluctant to feel they should have to email for pricing. again this would vary greatly from person to person. while emails are easy, some people don't like that route.if a breeder posts price up front it would probably help beginners the most with the pricing questions and would probably keep some pricing inquiry emails down for the seller and he can concentrate on answering other specific questions such as lineage, husbandry.

as far as a breeder only selling to someone they feel is ready that would be a different story, but couldn't the breeder once they speak to the buyer, determine if they want to sell to them or not anyway whether a price is listed or not?. why not have most pricing out there and determine who you sell to afterward .if a frogger is not qualified to keep a particular type of dart a breeder has the right to refusal. i do believe the breeder/seller should always have the ability to deny providing his animal to someone with whom they feel would be practicing incorrect husbandry.

i think commonly found frogs at the moment could have pricing and harder to find could have inquiries as well as sub adults and sexable adults or pairs. but for the most part, if the intention is to keep beginners to intermediate froggers buying juveniles in quantity, the common morphs could surely have the juvenile prices listed. just my own feelings.

its just a matter of what someone likes or dislikes. so i guess it'll always be what someone is most comfortable with.

tom

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Re: Poll - Should Frog sale advertisements include prices ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:27 pm

Do other forums have a policy where all frogs MUST have price tags ?


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