FF production problems....

[Philsuma]

got a PM on this and I'm hoping that it's ok to answer this in a thread, so that everyone can help out or learn.

"okay so the article states:Make new CXs (cultures) once a week when the newest flies emerge. (Use these flies). Then it states, "New cultures should be made from more than one boom from seperate cultures. Try to take flies from at least three different booming cultures, and make seperate NEW cultures from these - thus maximizing your chances of sucess with the new culture and production."

Do I use the newest flies or takes flies from three different booming cultures? What flies do you use to seed your cultures ?

The way I keep my culture is this:

I took a airtight sterilite bin, filled it almost full with water, and stick a fish tank heater in it. That way, I can place my cultures on top of the heated bin, thus giving me a warm culture. I put the heater at 75 degrees temp. So my culture is nice and warm.
Than, I place fresh mite paper on top of the lid, before I place the culture. After the culture is nicely place, not touching each other of course, I get another sterilite bin, remove the lid, and place that over all the cultures. Its like a dome covering the cultures. That way, the cultures is always nice amd moist, due to the humidity.

I just can never get the culture to last more than the initial hatching.

If you can help that would be great. I am using josh media with new cups and vented lids everytime.

[Philsuma]

got a PM on this and I'm hoping that it's ok to answer this in a thread, so that everyone can help out or learn.

"okay so the article states:Make new CXs (cultures) once a week when the newest flies emerge. (Use these flies). Then it states, "New cultures should be made from more than one boom from separate cultures. Try to take flies from at least three different booming cultures, and make separate NEW cultures from these - thus maximizing your chances of success with the new culture and production."

Do I use the newest flies or takes flies from three different booming cultures? What flies do you use to seed your cultures ?

I took a airtight sterilite bin, filled it almost full with water, and stick a fish tank heater in it. That way, I can place my cultures on top of the heated bin, thus giving me a warm culture. I put the heater at 75 degrees temp. So my culture is nice and warm.
Than, I place fresh mite paper on top of the lid, before I place the culture. After the culture is nicely place, not touching each other of course, I get another sterilite bin, remove the lid, and place that over all the cultures. Its like a dome covering the cultures. That way, the cultures is always nice and moist, due to the humidity.

I just can never get the culture to last more than the initial hatching.

If you can help that would be great. I am using josh media with new cups and vented lids everytime.

1. I make new cultures every single week. I pick a day of the week - Sunday is my day for instance, and I never, ever, ever skip or miss this day. Even if you have only 2 frogs, I would still make a new culture every single week, otherwise, at some point, you WILL have a gap or a crash.

2. There are different ideas about using flies from 2nd emergences ect. I tend to use flies from the 2nd emergence. The other benefit of having multiple cultures is to ALWAYS make cultures from DIFFERENT existing cultures. This way, you are playing the odds that by using 3 different existing or "master" cultures....you have much better odds that at least 1 or 2 of the new cultures will be excellent in production.

3. 75F is a very good temp, if kept steady.

4. I do not recommend keeping cultures in water. Having them in or so close to water, will change the dynamic of FF production and water and increased humidity is often worse than too dry.

5. Vented lids are a must and you are good to go with that. Are they from Josh's ? Do not stack the cultures on top of each other - that counteracts / inhibits the ventilation.

Try for some good pics of everything to post here. Pics allow us to assist you much better...and quicker.

[Philsuma]

Here's another good thread to read...

feeder-insects-nutrition-how-to-feed-your-frogs-f22/help-fruit-fly-larvae-t5396.html

[zeroburnz3]

so when you seed a culture, do you take two or three different cultures of second emergence flies to seed one cultures?

How many cultures should I make each week for six frogs? I have sub adult leucs, tincs, and azureus.

[Philsuma]

I never "mix" , when making new cultures. I just make a new culture from a single "master" culture. Mixing flies is a good way to get fliers.

For six subadults....I would make at least 2 new cultures a week, and maybe increasing to a third. Also...get a couple bean beetle cultures and even some springtails and Isopods. Diversity in feeder insects is not only nutritional for the frogs, but helpful for you, the hobbyist, when your FF CX's tank or don't do well.

[zeroburnz3]

I got a reply from ed on dendroboard and this is what he said,"If you can, get another culture from either a different source or from a fellow frogger and when you make new cultures, mix the flies. When I make cultures I always make sure to mix flies from the first and second emergence so I not only get booms but I get a fairly steady production. "

Now I am confuse. Do I mix or not mix?

[schreff]

I would NOT mix. As Phil said it can produce fliers.

[frogfreak]

I'm assuming you guys are talking about the mixing of different types of flies?

[Philsuma]

Yeah...different types, I don't know about you guys, but I don't even trust using fly cultures that "appear" similar as I have goofed up more than once and am less than diligent about labeling all my cultures.

It was just too easy for me to get confused with a wingless or a curly and since they looked similar and I was probably tired or distracted when making 20 different cultures.....and screwed up.

I just keep it simple.....one master culture....one new culture.

[frogfreak]

I take as many as 24 different cultures and dump them into 1 cup and then make whatever I need. I am diligent about labeling, but have screwed up in the past once or twice. I was second guessing myself and had to feed them out and start over. The reason I do this is to keep as much genetic diversity going as possible. I agree that you do have to be very careful though. I clean everything between different flies. Funnels, cups, etc.

[Philsuma]

Good point to bring up, Glenn. The longer you culture flies from the same master and keep using those flies on down....the smaller and "runtier" they get. That does have a bonus though - those tiny flies are excellent for feeding small pumilio or thumbnail froglets. Getting dusted supps into them.

With 24 different master cultures, I'd be afraid of 24 times the chance of mites getting transferred around.

Whenever I hit some one's frog gathering, collection visit or reptile show, I always brought home a few of whatever they had going - culture wise. That's how I kept my genetic diversity and "larger" flies going. But I still suck at labeling them and tracking what they are ect. That's why I just stuck to the 1 for 1 way of making new cultures.

It's all good though....just a matter of preference.

[zeroburnz3]

I get it now. I am only using the wingless melo ff. I can seed a new culture from different cultures, as long as they are all wingless melo, right?

I always seed fly from one culture, using the first emergence flies. My cultures never last for more than 2 and a half weeks max. After that, production seriously go down, and stop producing all together. More than half of the media is still in the culture when I throw it out, because it stop producing.

Now, I will seed a new culture from different stages of flies. Once I do this, my culture will last 4-6 weeks?

[Philsuma]

You are betting that your problems are 100% related to the flies though...

You may have:

1. Media Composition problems - type of media
2. Water, humidity and viscosity issues - mixing the media to an optimal liquid state
3. Temp - seems fine if it's 75F

As you can see, there are more varibles to consider here, then just the flies.

again....pictures would go a LONG way to helping you out here.

[zeroburnz3]

I will make a new culture today using different stages of flies, and will take a picture of it afterwards.

I am using josh media, with 1/3 media to 1/2 water, and a constant temp of 75 degrees.

I place the cultures in a sterilite bin, with the lid crack open. Cultures are always nice and moist

I will take a pic of the newly made cultures later today.

Thanks for the help everyone. First time on dart den and liking it more and more

[schreff]

Your cultures might be too moist. I had one that was pretty moist and it didn't produce as well as my "drier" mixes. My cultures are stored on a shelf with a temp between 70-72. 75F is best but I'm not turning my heat up in the house to make my flies happier lol.