Hi Paul,
Debates good . Fluff bad. I would say this is indeed a debate worth going over. As far as the F+W paperwork, I am guessing that it reads: IF, IF , you can produce real live legit paperwork for an animal , you can import it. You will not be able to produce such paperwork for Mystis or it would have been done here long ago.
I tend to group Darts (remembering all Darts are CITES appendix II) into these loose categories when it comes to legality:
1: CBs ,F1s,F2, ect. , totally 100% legal to the general public to have and hold.
2: F2s, F3s, ect. totally legal to the general public.
3: Darts that were brought into a country with legal paperwork for a frog that is as close to the species trying to be properly imported as possible. In other words, we think this is a pumilio , it is as close to a pumilio as any other Dart we can find, we will import it with pumilio papers.
4: Darts that were brought in the way of group 4 only the importers know exactly what the species or sub-species is and is trying to sneak them past officials who may not know exactly what they are looking at.
5: Darts that were brought in under research papers and were allowed to be released to the general public for noncommercial use.
6
arts that were brought in under research papers and produced F2 generation that were allowed to be used for commercial purposes.
7: Darts that were brought in under research papers and were released to the general public breaking the member nation agreement that no animals would ever be released to the public.
8: Darts smuggled in that were never exported legally.
The fact that many of our frogs here in the U.S. and Europe, and I am sure Japan and a number of other nations across the world were at one time under different status than now is not at issue. The point I am trying to make is that just because your local cop does not find it necessary to enforce what he or she believes to be a silly or useless time wasting law does not mean the law is not being broken.
With the above groups of Darts a good portion of the Darts we have in the hobby deemed legal (but possibly not totally) got here with no ill intentions with no alterior motives. Many of the darts in the hobby did/do come in under less honorable situations though.
One thing I have noticed is that in Europe it seems much easier to find true Dart brokers. Froggers more than willing to sell (export) you frogs you want without knowing you or your ability to care for the Darts.
I don't have a problem with froggers wanting cool Darts, obviously. I have a problem with blind eyes. The simple fact of the matter is that Europe does smuggle in large numbers of Darts. The rate at which they are caught before entering Europe with the Darts is sooo heavily lopsided it does not take a math wiz to see what's going on. Couple that with the number of indisputably illegal frogs that pop up in European want adds without fear of going to jail and we have a situation.
I tried to look up Grannies on the CITES site, but either my computer is crappin on me again or the site is running very slow. I belive there are smuggled Grannies here , there, and other countries. I belive the ones I have are F2s, 3s, whatever. I think that the majority of Grannies brought in with paperwork came in under pumilio papers or research papers. When a Darts is brought in under paperwork that is actually an attempt to list and import the Darts as ethically as possible and is later found to have come in under incorrect paperwork, this is a hugely different situation that someone jamming a load of darts into film cans and sneaking them in. It is also different than someone knowing exactly what they have, getting paperwork for an exportable , legal Dart, and slapping the bogus paperwork in with the illegal Darts hoping the state officials don't know what they are looking at. You may have noticed that my Grannies are up for trade....
Rich