Dart Den

I've read a couple threads on another forum about rare frogs. And a few member's posts about my site specific Robalo pumilio.

I'll say that the site specific, legal, Robalo pumilio is in-fact the rarest dart in our U.S. hobby today.
There are quite a few histos of different morphs, some unknown locals included. Lehmani in the hobby still, and for some time. Not in large #s at all, but more than true Robalos. I know of only two breeding pairs of Robalo pums.
There were quite a few best guesses that came in, none of which look anything like my Robalos. And if they did, they would still be best guess/possible mutts at best.

There is a reason why there have been no best guess escudos and quite a few morphs which were never brought in. Difficulty to find and hard locales to get to, have precluded certain pumilio morphs from being easily grabbed off the ground and bagged up for quick export.

The Robalos I work with came from an area very hard to find. They were next to a very loud rapid system making listening for calling males very difficult, very dark/ground colored and small in number of population.

Most all of the frogs mentioned in the threads I have read are either non-site specific, illegal, or already breeding in numbers larger than exactly two breeding groups. Making the Robalo Pumilio the rarest legal, site specific dart frog in the hobby.

If anyone has any "best guess robalos" please post pics. I have seen some of what people have called Uyamas, and they too are different than my true , site specific , legal Uyama River pumilio.

Rich

Those are still one of my favorite morphs of your pumilio. Did you also see JP's Uyama thread on that forum? It seems like they're one of the most variable morphs, but without looking like any other morphs. I found pics on that thread he took that look like they could be my pair's twin frogs. That being said I still wouldn't interbreed my pumilio with your pumilio, or any other site specific pumilio with non site specific pumilio

Thanks.

I am bumping this thread it is a couple of years old now and wondering if the site specific Robalo are still the rarest in the hobby.

Chris your link is broken.

-Beth

Cool thead to dust off, Beth.

A fantastic pumilio morph and one that has a very limited population range, I believe.

Unlike lehmani, this morph would be legal to collect and import in any amount.

Good luck finding them in the wild. I hear its getting harder.

Michael

And if the range is as small as reported...I hope they keep that location secret.

It's cases like the robalo and uyamas that make proper management practically impossible. There isn't enough founding stock to make them worth working with. At some point the lineage will die if new genetics aren't brought in. While they definitely are more rare to the hobby, its still a question of whether or not they are of any value to the hobby given the small genetic pool.

As long as they are able to be displayed in accessable collections, photographed and behaviour documented, then they are of definate value to the hobby IMO.

Agree that they have scientific value to the hobby. My point is that the hobby as a whole would be better focusing on a morph or species that has a better genetic future instead of focusing that time and effort on a dead end.

You do realize that just one group of Robalo can raise a few hundred froglets in a lifetime 10 years+ and not have to go to F2 for 10 more years right? There is more than enough time to see what happens with them and to be honest we all know they could be bred out to F7 and on with no real worries so giving up on a rare frog for any reason is just not practical especially when in the right hands its lineage can stick around longer then we likely will be which is longer than likely it will be in the wild.

So, 50+ years with the Robalo seem's to be worth the loss if you ask me.

Michael

Uyama are one of the very few pums I am REALLY interested in working with.

If only I could hump someones leg long enough to convince him to release some to me

D3monic Wrote:Uyama are one of the very few pums I am REALLY interested in working with.

If only I could hump someones leg long enough to convince him to release some to me

Back of the line! Its not so much a long one as a long wait.

Michael

If my statements about this topic and Richard Lynch are being removed, which they are, I would greatly appreciate this thread being closed now Phil.
Either way Phil , please close this thread.

Thanks,

Rich

Poison Beauties Wrote:You do realize that just one group of Robalo can raise a few hundred froglets in a lifetime 10 years+ and not have to go to F2 for 10 more years right? There is more than enough time to see what happens with them and to be honest we all know they could be bred out to F7 and on with no real worries so giving up on a rare frog for any reason is just not practical especially when in the right hands its lineage can stick around longer then we likely will be which is longer than likely it will be in the wild.

So, 50+ years with the Robalo seem's to be worth the loss if you ask me.

Michael

I completely understand that Michael. That doesn't mean that's a frog that should be meant for the general hobby. While you will be able produce a few generations, as you keep inbreeding them they get further from their wild counterpart. Imports like those of the el dorados are much more favorable to the hobby in terms of long term management.

Thanks Tim.
We'll talk about it in the Union area. Unless you continue to go against my askings and further this issue. I've have actually gone into this a few times before, not here possibly, but probably, before , but some don't understand simple potential new Panama pum blood...anyway, Phil, please close this thread which I should have never started.
Thanks again,
Rich

RichFrye Wrote:Thanks Tim.
We'll talk about it in the Union area. Unless you continue to go against my askings and further this issue. I've have actually gone into this a few times before, not here possibly, but probably, before , but some don't understand simple potential new Panama pum blood...anyway, Phil, please colse this thread which I should have never started.
Thanks again,
Rich

Hey Rich, this thread really has nothing to do with the union. Yes, the frogs being used as an example are yours, but they could be replaced with dozens of different darts and the points still be valid.