Dart Den

So...

Mark Pepper imported some of these from Peru to Canada and I'm sure more than just a couple people got them (Canada).

Mark then exported Vazos to only ONE person in the U.S ?

in 2009-2010 - Sean Stewart imported some from the E.U

It's being reported that Adam Butt imported some from the E.U ?

Anyone with more insight to this species in North America ?

I don't really have much background info on them, mine are Butt x meyer.

I'm the only one here in the states to receive some. The two that I have are STUNNING but unfortunately both are female.

There were only 2 people up in Canada to get some. Fortunately one of the 2 in Canada has had very good luck getting his to breed. I'm on his waiting list to get some this summer, AND hopefully one of the ones I get will start to call soon after I get them

Thanks for the quick reply Gary. I though it was you, but wasn't sure.

Can you get some pics of your Vanzo's on here. I think that would be great.

Here you go

LOVE the leg pattern on this one.

flip side

Striking ! At first glance, I'm thinking the leg reticulation may be unlike the E.U lines.

...for further information on the European Union imports of R. vanzolinii circa 2009, Sean Stewart.

These CB, E.U background-ed animals were desended from stock that was originally seized in a raid and held in a secure facility - not to be transfered to other people / hobbyists.

Adam Butt's Vanzo line are 2007 imports.

Michael

Poison Beauties Wrote:Adam Butt's Vanzo line are 2007 imports.

Michael

Was he the actual importer ?

That is what I was told, His line is well established here so I'd hope its in order.

Michael

Bumping this for Mikes (afterdark) benefit, so he may be able to PM Gary and discuss lineage ect.

So, I assume there is still a question as to Sean Stewart vanzos? ie illegal.

Not in my eyes. Sean's 2009 E.U import was legal as far as I'm concerned. He has CITES paperwork on all of it.

I have heard reports that some of the 'Midwest U.S. via E.U" Sylvaticus was lacking in paperwork.

I heard rumours of the 2008-09 "NYC E.U blue Jeans' as HAVING CITES paperwork, but I didn't see it, so I don't believe it until I see it.

That's the difference...at least to me.

Gotcha

Exact Same as Casti's......not supposed to be released to the public from held animals ect, but it happened.

oh well :roll:

Not even close to smuggling in my book.

Scientific and Zoo animals.....leak em' out.

opps ! 8)

Philsuma Wrote:Exact Same as Casti's......not supposed to be released to the public from held animals ect, but it happened.

oh well :roll:

Not even close to smuggling in my book.

Scientific and Zoo animals.....leak em' out.

opps ! 8)

That's not exactly what happened. The Euro vanzolinii were all smuggled and instead of contacting the Peruvian government to see what they should do they simply made them all legal and gave them to a well known breeder over there. So Sean's are legal here, and the vanzolinii are legal in Europe, but they have NEVER left Peru legally except for the one's UE has.

So, if that is smuggling in your book, nothing should be.

Meant to say if that's NOT smuggling in your book.

I'm well aware of the 'European Vanzo" history. I guess I should have been more clear. The METHODS of both Casti's and Vanzo's coming into the UNITED STATES hobby are different but the end result is the same IMO.

I do NOT consider either to be smuggled. More to be posted in another thread entitled "The Smuggling Thread".

I don't know how to take that. The vanzolinii were smuggled into Europe. That's where they came from. Smuggling.

So how are they not smuggled? Feel free to answer in the other thread...

The government saw fit to place them into a hobbyist's care - Legal

They were declared thru CITES and sent to the U.S - Legal

My other thread deals with how wrong I feel it is to be 100% either 'black or white'.

If you feel so strongly about the Vanzo sitch.....then you MUST be upset about Galacts, Terribs, Vittatus, A whole bunch o' tincs...ect....ect....