Dart Den

I have not seen a direct importer, i.e the first person 'opening" the box, ever utilize quarantine methods.

Usually, and especially with amphibians which are a little more 'delicate' than reptiles....the importer wants to move them out as fast as possible to avoid 'shrinkage' or loss due to stress, disease ect. Even the act of unpacking an animal is stressful and then the moving and transferring to yet a second or third cup or enclosure. The more times it's packed, unpacked and handled, the greater the chance of mortality.

It should not be the importers responsibility to do much more than to quickly move them out. A livestock filled warehouse is probably brimming with disease anyway, so that would be the last place I'd want my frogs sitting around for 30-40 days.

I wouldn't mind if the soda bottles never got unscrewed and were just put in another box and sent along to me, but we all know the containers need to be emptied in order to separate the various individual animals. I've seen the workers slapping the bottom of the soda bottle to get the frogs to pop out of the neck and into another container. Let me say that again...I have seen it.

I would NOT wish them to apply any 'shotgun' medical treatments to them either. I doubt record keeping would be done with that and I'd only trust myself anyway. Importers cannot be expected to treat animals as it would be cost prohibitive and again, it would result in more shrinkage or a customer could complain after his received animal died and claim it was due to some treatment applied at the importer location.

NOW a re-seller - someone who is the SECOND person to obtain the imported animals.....they SHOULD quarantine and possible medicate, but there is where the cost per animal is going to increase.

Some thoughts.

Thanks Phil, that's exactly what I was wondering.

How long have these importers been in business?

If they were fly by night operations trying to make a quick buck then I would imagine that description is right on the money......

I would imagine an upstanding importer would cease to be if he was constantly shipping out bad product.

It's not the (dart frog) importer that you should be concerned with, it's the next level volume flippers that can wreak havoc on the system. Those are the guys that call everything "strawberry poison frog" and those are the guys that dump 30 or 40 frogs into the same dirty tank over and over and over within no treatment or quarantine. That's where things are contaminated and spread. They come in, they sell a few retail and the rest are distributed to pet stores and other retailers and then they are sold again to the unsuspecting public. A frog may change hands 3 or more times before it reaches a final destination.

I QT every new frog the same, away from my collection, I feed springtails at first, test for ranavirus, which can be swabbing shipping cups first, wait 8-10 days after if negative and do a full swab on the frogs. If frogs are in QT (ie small enclosure for a week or so with leaf litter and paper towels, you can do an environment swab), rotate and swab every leaf
(pums tend to climb the sides of the container, swab that' as well. I test for ranavirus and chytrid first, tne lab can use the same swab to test for both if negative retest after 8 days if still negative then move on to fecal tests for parasites .
Just my routine.

Beth I'm curious why you don't just swab the frogs in the first place? I could see where swabbing the shipping cups might come out inconclusive but swabbing the frogs you would be 100% sure. Just curious as to why you do it the way you do.

I do both, need at least 2 clean swabs at least 8 days apart and per the advice from the lab an environment swab is ok if a small QT container.
When frogs first arrive they can be stressed so I swab the cups they arrive the more cups the better, plus I have been told they shed the virus more when stressed. Remember they are looking for DNA.

Phil a fascinating post,as to how things work in the US,my humble thanks.
If what Ruud Shouten of Dutch Rana,has told me is true which i have absolutely no reason to doubt,then the european market does have a direct import that are quarantined are tested,before they are released to the public.These wild caught frogs are expensive as befits that care and attention to detail.He goes out and collects the frogs with the help of locals,he flies back with them,is there at each step of the journey.You are looking at around £200 for a pr of his WC tincs,very expensive,for a pr of tincs here. But it seems with my limited knowledge and experiance that this is the way forward :he makes a huge investment,each frog is worth a substantial sum,so each frog is looked after to the best of their means. Mortality has got to be lowered under these circumstances,which has got to be such a good thing if any of us are going to buy WC frogs. I wish all importers adopted this model,cut away all the middle men and do the job right and finally charge more to us,the end market. I am not an affluent guy each and every penny counts to us,but hell i'd rather only buy one pr of frogs properly cared for each year,than buy 5prs,and know that around those 5 prs there is huge mortality of WC frogs as they get moved from one dealer to the next to the next,and as you say each step of the way,be stressed to hell,and be able to pick up something else nasty,desease wise..

I'm new to this hobby,i don't know it all,ha never will,if we are going to bring in wild animals then hell can't we pay abit more and have the bloody job done right. Route ! I,no middle men imported frogs don't get passed down the line they get brought in cared for and are worth more,and we would pay for that.
I 'm a soft guy i care about these frogs i keep in glass boxes deeply,i agonised for hours over the thought of buying WC when i had a once in a year chance to do so,just because they were wild caught,it messed with me.Yeah i know i can argue that they would never go back,bla bla,not the point,they are WC had been taken from their home because of me!!! i'm sure the american market would be hugely receptive to this model,as i already see with the sterling work undertaken by understory in Canada,and folks would give up those extra bucks to know that those WC frogs had been properly cared for properly treated,yeah i know more Idealism ,but hell why not we hold the key and i know its money,but there is more to it than that.


regards
Stu