Dart Den

What is the smallest gap a baby pumillio froglet could squeeze through? I figured 1mm would be safe but i'm being advised otherwise,this is important to me as I'm trying to create a refugium in our latest build. Friends here are expressing concerns about froglets getting stuck. I need to be sure on the tolerances I'm working to.
thanks all in advance
regards

Stu

Stu,

Sizes for pumilio froglets vary - tiny, like Escudo, to small like Popa, to bigger, like eldorado.

You're just gonna have to 'eyeball' it up and judge by the size of what you think. No way to give you a measurement answer on this.

What is the purpose of a 'refugium' for a dart frog tank ? If it's to allow microfauna to breed to not be eaten - someone did a study on how that doesn't work. Unlike a reef tank, the microfauna in a vivarium doesn't 'colonize' and spread throughout the enclosure from the refugium, like copepods and amphipods do.

some............thoughts. lol

Stu & Phil, I was intrigued by this idea of a refugarium in a dart viv. Something like this aquarium breeding tank. It has small slits in the side to let microfauna out and into the viv.
Some comments gentleman?

http://www.petco.com/product/7449/Lee's-...1515423635

Hi Stu,
First, a one MM crack is pretty small. I don't know if I have seen too many pums which morph with heads smaller than one MM survive long.
Where exactly would the gap/s be ? In a setting where the pums are not stressed there should not be much squeezing through of gaps. It's sort of like a viv that has constant wall walking. If it's happening there's a concern to address.
I'm not sure how you plan on setting up a successful refugium but it has been done in the past, I believe by Ben Eiben for one. I'm not sure what the reasoning is for this one, but his experiment was more along the lines of a self sustaining viv. Which if we have the time , money, access to good food stuffs which don't refuge, is a bit of a specialty need or want.
A culture of booming almost anything can be added to a viv and in and of itself is the refugium at least shortish term.

Rich

Durn metric system.....

Philsuma Wrote:Stu,

Sizes for pumilio froglets vary - tiny, like Escudo, to small like Popa, to bigger, like eldorado.

You're just gonna have to 'eyeball' it up and judge by the size of what you think. No way to give you a measurement answer on this.

What is the purpose of a 'refugium' for a dart frog tank ? If it's to allow microfauna to breed to not be eaten - someone did a study on how that doesn't work. Unlike a reef tank, the microfauna in a vivarium doesn't 'colonize' and spread throughout the enclosure from the refugium, like copepods and amphipods do.

some............thoughts. lol

Cheers Phil,well specifically it is for cemetery bastis,ha on my thread mate it is the tombstone that will be the refugium.I think you might need to point my iso's in the direction of the study they obviously haven't read it :lol:
seriously i am grateful for the thoughts

Stu

RichFrye Wrote:Hi Stu,
First, a one MM crack is pretty small. I don't know if I have seen too many pums which morph with heads smaller than one MM survive long.
Where exactly would the gap/s be ? In a setting where the pums are not stressed there should not be much squeezing through of gaps. It's sort of like a viv that has constant wall walking. If it's happening there's a concern to address.
I'm not sure how you plan on setting up a successful refugium but it has been done in the past, I believe by Ben Eiben for one. I'm not sure what the reasoning is for this one, but his experiment was more along the lines of a self sustaining viv. Which if we have the time , money, access to good food stuffs which don't refuge, is a bit of a specialty need or want.
A culture of booming almost anything can be added to a viv and in and of itself is the refugium at least shortish term.

Rich

Hi Rich,
I appreciate the time!
Rich i'm building a viv for a group(probably 3female) (it might well be cut to a pr of cemetery bastis. I wanted to incorperate a tombstone into the viv design like the ones pictured in the cemetery(yeah I know this is slightly mad),so i made up my design and decided to hollow out the tomb and fill it with,essentially a vertical substrate.holes are where the top bit of stone joins the lower bit,and buried in the substrate. The reasoning is fairly simple I'm trying to use all available space,and factor in a shall we say off the wall design .

The house brick back right is the refugium,for want of a better word.

Look Rich,this design is slightly bonkers,I really don't take myself to seriously,but if this makes sense i do take our little charges that we both care for and there wellfare very seriously,i'm really not up for endangering our frogs,but if i can incorporate a homage to their home,like i try to with so many vivs we build,fulfill their needs,then I'm apt to go for it. I know this pic is a very early bare bones(no pum intended) ,but it might give you some idea of what i'm trying to work through,more is on my room thread..I'm hoping to create a vertical substrate inside the tomb consisting of thick hardwood sticks predominantly which will decay over a longish time period and add to the quantity of fauna(micro) that i could find in viv.

thanks
Stu


But devoid of everything else what your saying is providing I have happy frogs and they are not stressed...walkwaking,then i shouldn't be finding,pumillio froglets wedged anywhere.