01-30-2013, 07:24 AM
Hello Dartden!
I been doing extensive testing with my empty tank (false bottom, Great Stuff with 100% Silicon and Great stuff) for a few days testing out temperature within the tank while the ambient temperature is around 70-72F.
Testing began once false bottom, D.I.Y. background assembled, and gravel covering false bottom sides and front. My location is Southern California.
Setup:
-40 Gallon Breeder.
-Aqueon glass lid modified with two ends cut and fiber glass screen covering. I have about 90% full covering and 10% exposed -for air circulation / prevention of Co2 poisoning.
-Zoo Med 30 inch T5 High Output. Standing 3 inches above glass lid.
-1x 5,000 Kelvin and 80 CRT. 24W
-1x 6,500 Kelvin and 80 CRT. 24W
-Aquarium Thermometer (JW Brand and equipped via magnet on the outside and pretty accurate).
-Cheap All Life Hygrometer (used as just a general gauge and not for exact measurements).
Test Day 1:
Day 1 testing was tank on the floor.
Time duration for all testing is 1-2 hours.
No Humidity test.
Bone dry tank lights off 75F.
Bone dry 2x lights on 81F.
Bone dry 2x lights on moved light 5 inches above glass lid 80.5F.
Bone dry 2x lights on moved light 5 inches above glass lid fan running with air blowing under the light 79-80F.
Bone dry 2x lights on lid half open 77F.
Bone dry 1x light on minuscule difference in the duration of 30 mins. and temperature dropped to 76.5F.
My summary:
Carpet retains heat worth calculating.
Closing house heater vent can possibly make an impact.
Small fan under lighting is better for focus point (cooling off glass lid when the light is beaming on it).
Day 2:
Tank moved to a 3 foot stand.
Time duration for testing is 1-2 hours.
Closed all heater vents in my room and that dropped my room ambient temperature to 70F. My house temperature remains at 72F. Believe it not, closing my heater vent in my room is giving me better results than what I initially thought.
Lights remain 3 inches above glass lid on all testing.
Glass lid remained shut throughout the whole testing and only opened for misting.
2x lights on were used throughout the whole testing.
Bone dry Lights off temperature 73.5F.
Light on misting on 3x glass walls and gravel 76F. Temperature stable at 77.5 - 78F (increase may be from lights on and gradual temperature rise).
Condensation remained visable before sleep and then 1x light on before sleep.
5 hours of sleep and 7:00 AM PST condensation 95% gone. Only place where condensation remained was on lower gravel portion and below the S. Moss at drainage point.
My summary:
Somewhat noticeable temperature changes.
Less Temperature flux.
S. Moss holds humidity very, very well and holds humidity over 24 hours.
Suspect lighting fixture and will work at creating higher suspension 1 foot above glass lid.
Will look for a small desk fan to cool the glass top.
Day 3.
Tank remains on the 3 foot stand.
All four side misting and increase to moderate misting.
Hygrometer placed in the center of the tank.
2x Lights on throughout the whole test.
7:00 PM lights off 74F and hygrometer placed inside. Hygrometer immediate reading 38% roughly.
7:10 PM mist all four sides and 74F and humidity at 45%
7:30 PM glass wall has water condensation build up more towards top then bottom.
8:30 PM background appears to be dry and misted all four sides to light/moderate misting. Temperature at 76F and humidity at 80%. Frozen 20 Oz. water bottle placed on top of glass lid near light fixture and dropped temperature by 0.75F - 1F within 10 mins.
8:45 PM front glass has almost no visability except for a a small portion on the sides and side of the of the glass still has condensation, but not foggy looking as the front. Background appears to be dry again. Water bottle effectiveness wore off and temperature rose to pre water bottle placement. Temperature at 76F and humidity at 80%. Water bottle placed back in freezer.
10:45 PM temperature 77F and humidity at 78% roughly
12:55 AM temperature at 78F and humidity at 75%
1:43 AM temperature at 78F and humidity at 75%.
1:53 AM front glass has almost no visability except for a a small portion on the sides and side of the of the glass still has condensation, but not foggy looking as the front.
Concluded testing for day 3.
My summary:
Light fixture needs to be addressed. Light fixture needs 1 foot of higher suspension at least.
Need to get small fan for glass lid cooling for futher testing.
Water bottle method lacks longevity or need 2L bottles. Water bottle method seems too much effort for such minuscule gains.
Considering investing in a digital higher quality hygrometer, but weighing options of visual indicators as well.
Humidity stable at 75% and predicting higher humidity percentage once ABG mix, plants, and more S. moss placed.
Untested theories and speculations:
Humidity appears to be a double edged sword when it comes to temperature. Water does take longer to warm up and takes longer to cooling down. Since frog tanks are required to hold in at least 70% humidity (I heard 60% is ok, but I believe Dart Frogs prefer 70-80% humidity), ventilation would have to be restricted unless you live in the tropics. I have heard of computer fans inside the tanks for air circulation, but could that be enough for evaporative cooling when the fan will be blowing air that is 70-80% humidity? Could evaporative cooling effectiveness be detriment to higher humidity levels? I did some info about water and how it can be beneficial for those worried about high temperatures.
Water has high Heat Index Capacity link (Check the link in virus scanner if you think its a bad link which I assure is not).
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 242AAMsOOk
Humidity and evaporative cooling info (This is based on humans, but this is also relevant to frogs as they are moist just like people when we sweat)
Humidity and evaporative cooling link (Check the link in virus scanner if you think its a bad link which I assure is not).
http://engineering.mit.edu/live/news/11 ... h-humidity
Thanks for taking your time to read this even if you read just a little bit, thank you! Information and experience are two different things, if you have anything you would like to contribute please contribute.
I been doing extensive testing with my empty tank (false bottom, Great Stuff with 100% Silicon and Great stuff) for a few days testing out temperature within the tank while the ambient temperature is around 70-72F.
Testing began once false bottom, D.I.Y. background assembled, and gravel covering false bottom sides and front. My location is Southern California.
Setup:
-40 Gallon Breeder.
-Aqueon glass lid modified with two ends cut and fiber glass screen covering. I have about 90% full covering and 10% exposed -for air circulation / prevention of Co2 poisoning.
-Zoo Med 30 inch T5 High Output. Standing 3 inches above glass lid.
-1x 5,000 Kelvin and 80 CRT. 24W
-1x 6,500 Kelvin and 80 CRT. 24W
-Aquarium Thermometer (JW Brand and equipped via magnet on the outside and pretty accurate).
-Cheap All Life Hygrometer (used as just a general gauge and not for exact measurements).
Test Day 1:
Day 1 testing was tank on the floor.
Time duration for all testing is 1-2 hours.
No Humidity test.
Bone dry tank lights off 75F.
Bone dry 2x lights on 81F.
Bone dry 2x lights on moved light 5 inches above glass lid 80.5F.
Bone dry 2x lights on moved light 5 inches above glass lid fan running with air blowing under the light 79-80F.
Bone dry 2x lights on lid half open 77F.
Bone dry 1x light on minuscule difference in the duration of 30 mins. and temperature dropped to 76.5F.
My summary:
Carpet retains heat worth calculating.
Closing house heater vent can possibly make an impact.
Small fan under lighting is better for focus point (cooling off glass lid when the light is beaming on it).
Day 2:
Tank moved to a 3 foot stand.
Time duration for testing is 1-2 hours.
Closed all heater vents in my room and that dropped my room ambient temperature to 70F. My house temperature remains at 72F. Believe it not, closing my heater vent in my room is giving me better results than what I initially thought.
Lights remain 3 inches above glass lid on all testing.
Glass lid remained shut throughout the whole testing and only opened for misting.
2x lights on were used throughout the whole testing.
Bone dry Lights off temperature 73.5F.
Light on misting on 3x glass walls and gravel 76F. Temperature stable at 77.5 - 78F (increase may be from lights on and gradual temperature rise).
Condensation remained visable before sleep and then 1x light on before sleep.
5 hours of sleep and 7:00 AM PST condensation 95% gone. Only place where condensation remained was on lower gravel portion and below the S. Moss at drainage point.
My summary:
Somewhat noticeable temperature changes.
Less Temperature flux.
S. Moss holds humidity very, very well and holds humidity over 24 hours.
Suspect lighting fixture and will work at creating higher suspension 1 foot above glass lid.
Will look for a small desk fan to cool the glass top.
Day 3.
Tank remains on the 3 foot stand.
All four side misting and increase to moderate misting.
Hygrometer placed in the center of the tank.
2x Lights on throughout the whole test.
7:00 PM lights off 74F and hygrometer placed inside. Hygrometer immediate reading 38% roughly.
7:10 PM mist all four sides and 74F and humidity at 45%
7:30 PM glass wall has water condensation build up more towards top then bottom.
8:30 PM background appears to be dry and misted all four sides to light/moderate misting. Temperature at 76F and humidity at 80%. Frozen 20 Oz. water bottle placed on top of glass lid near light fixture and dropped temperature by 0.75F - 1F within 10 mins.
8:45 PM front glass has almost no visability except for a a small portion on the sides and side of the of the glass still has condensation, but not foggy looking as the front. Background appears to be dry again. Water bottle effectiveness wore off and temperature rose to pre water bottle placement. Temperature at 76F and humidity at 80%. Water bottle placed back in freezer.
10:45 PM temperature 77F and humidity at 78% roughly
12:55 AM temperature at 78F and humidity at 75%
1:43 AM temperature at 78F and humidity at 75%.
1:53 AM front glass has almost no visability except for a a small portion on the sides and side of the of the glass still has condensation, but not foggy looking as the front.
Concluded testing for day 3.
My summary:
Light fixture needs to be addressed. Light fixture needs 1 foot of higher suspension at least.
Need to get small fan for glass lid cooling for futher testing.
Water bottle method lacks longevity or need 2L bottles. Water bottle method seems too much effort for such minuscule gains.
Considering investing in a digital higher quality hygrometer, but weighing options of visual indicators as well.
Humidity stable at 75% and predicting higher humidity percentage once ABG mix, plants, and more S. moss placed.
Untested theories and speculations:
Humidity appears to be a double edged sword when it comes to temperature. Water does take longer to warm up and takes longer to cooling down. Since frog tanks are required to hold in at least 70% humidity (I heard 60% is ok, but I believe Dart Frogs prefer 70-80% humidity), ventilation would have to be restricted unless you live in the tropics. I have heard of computer fans inside the tanks for air circulation, but could that be enough for evaporative cooling when the fan will be blowing air that is 70-80% humidity? Could evaporative cooling effectiveness be detriment to higher humidity levels? I did some info about water and how it can be beneficial for those worried about high temperatures.
Water has high Heat Index Capacity link (Check the link in virus scanner if you think its a bad link which I assure is not).
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 242AAMsOOk
Humidity and evaporative cooling info (This is based on humans, but this is also relevant to frogs as they are moist just like people when we sweat)
Humidity and evaporative cooling link (Check the link in virus scanner if you think its a bad link which I assure is not).
http://engineering.mit.edu/live/news/11 ... h-humidity
Thanks for taking your time to read this even if you read just a little bit, thank you! Information and experience are two different things, if you have anything you would like to contribute please contribute.