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GE Silicone II with BioSeal -Good or Bad ?
#1
I have read and heard numerous opinions that range from yes to no on weather it is safe to use the silicone with the BioSeal for the terrarium. All in all it has just left me confused and frustrated. So I decided to call the GE Company and see if I could get to the bottom of this. I spoke to one of the representatives and to whom my surprise told me that the silicone that they are selling now with the BioSeal (mold and mildew inhibitor) is the same silicone product that they were selling before. The only difference is that for proprietary reasons the couldn’t have the logo on the tubs before. So unless they are lying or don’t know what they are talking about it is safe. Or is it ? Who to trust.......
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#2
people have used it and their frogs are okay. it's not clear if there are negative effects in the long term health of your animals. remember that some darts have been documented living more than 25 years. sls is also a constant problem and is not understood by anyone. who knows if bioseal can cause sls or other problems later on. i don't claim to know, but i'd rather not risk it. why not use dap or some other brand without antibiotic properties?
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#3
I agree 100% with mack.

If you order the All-Glass aquarium brand from herpsupplies.com (is that too many endorsements :lol:?), you'll usually have it within a week.

If it's safe for a fish tank, it should be safe for frogs as well.

You could also find a place to order FDA approved stuff...but fish safe is good enough to buy my piece of mind.

Even if it costs a bit more, is it really gonna break the bank to buy the "sure thing"?
Brian T. Sexton
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#4
Thanks for the replies I will definitely have to consider other sources for silicone.
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#5
i can never find a place that sells DAP. of course i only look in home depot and lowes.
also what type of DAP. it comes in clear or what are you buying mack.
i know all this stuff of what type and where to get it has been asked several times. i guess this will be always an on going question.
walt
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#6
I have some people who have had luck using the "new" silicon with BioSeal, but no one has came forward willing to state that it is truely safe. By mistake, in my zeal for building new tanks I missed the small BioSeal logo ( I dont know why GE even put it on the tube with it being that easy to miss ) and made 4 new tanks.

I have recently added one imitator that I morphed out about 3 months ago to see what affect the silicon will have on him. I also plan to take a smaller 2.5 gallon tank, silicon all sides, let it fully cure, then add in various tropical fish to see if there are any detrimental effects.

I figure with the fish I should see something within a week or 2, if anything at all. I know with the frog it might take longer ( months, even years ), but would like to get a positive or negative answer to this issue.

Mad Scientist Rob
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#7
Hello Mad Scientist Rob!
When you do the experiment with fish, will you have a filter running?
Just wondering if a filter with charcoal will skew the results.
Keep us posted.
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#8
When I run the fish tests I will only use biological and mechanical filtration ( no charcoal ).

Rob
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#9
Hey that is a great idea Mad Scientist Rob, please do keep us posted. I would be interested in whatever the findings are.
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#10
do you have ace hardware where you live? i've found dap there.
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#11
there is an extensive amount of articles on this topic on that other frog board. Bio-seal has always been in the GE II. There are many people that have been using the GE-II for years and have had no problems. The bio seal statement is just a new advertisement for an always present element in the GE-II. The DAP is supposedly also acceptable, but a lot less tested, that alone makes me weary. The DAP also creates a much stronger chemical odor which is also a deterent for me. I have used both the all-glass silicone and GE-II and never had a problem, unfortunately the all-glass is much more expensive when using large amounts.
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#12
howdy,

i'm not looking to start an argument, but your post sounds very definitive. i have a couple of questions. first, how many years have people been using the GS/silicone technique? i really don't know, so if an old timer could chime in, that would be great.

my second question is about the statement that people who have used it for years have had no problems. what defines no problems? did these people never have a case of sls, or an unexplained death? i'd like to see a comparative study of sls in tads conceived in various situations...

so my final take is that clearly bioseal doesn't kill frogs upon contact. but given the long lifespan of some animals, i wonder if longer term problems might occur. i personally like the 'food safe' label on the DAP, and will trust it until someone who has done more homework than me says differently.
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#13
Very well put Mack!

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#14
Mack, you bring up some good points. I didn't intend to come off as knowing %100 about the topic. My main point was that GE II has been used by many people for many years, at least 6-8 years, without any known side effects. Also, GE II has allways included the bio seal. That being said, it is not to say that this evidence/opinion on this matter is all inclusive or derived from a study. I've heard of people having problems from fumes and silicone, great stuff that hadn't cured properly, etc. The SLS issue doesn't seem to be present, but it is hard to be sure due to the many factors that comprise SLS. I also mentioned the topic being covered on dendroboard. My intention was to avoid rehashing the entire topic, and give a brief summary of other's opinions and experiences. Sometimes it is hard to write a quick response to someone's question without being long-winded. Perhaps that is why my answer sounded, unintentionally, definitve.
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#15
i feel sorry for any frogs that huff uncured great stuff! on the first big tank i did, i thought opening the front door and turning on a fan would allow enough ventilation for me to work inside the house. the fumes almost knocked me over! super nasty headache. i won't ever try that again, and i'm super careful to avoid breathing fumes while applying the gs.

i work great stuff in single layers, never overlapping. i let it cure at least 24 hours, then add the next layer. i also look through the glass to see that the great stuff has cured, then paint the outside of the glass (as opposed to siliconing the inside before using gs). sometimes it doesn't cure well, and will look wet and gummy where it touches the glass. i also alway let silicone cure for a couple of weeks before adding any substrate or water.
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#16
mack Wrote:i feel sorry for any frogs that huff uncured great stuff! on the first big tank i did, i thought opening the front door and turning on a fan would allow enough ventilation for me to work inside the house. the fumes almost knocked me over! super nasty headache. i won't ever try that again, and i'm super careful to avoid breathing fumes while applying the gs.

i work great stuff in single layers, never overlapping. i let it cure at least 24 hours, then add the next layer. i also look through the glass to see that the great stuff has cured, then paint the outside of the glass (as opposed to siliconing the inside before using gs). sometimes it doesn't cure well, and will look wet and gummy where it touches the glass. i also alway let silicone cure for a couple of weeks before adding any substrate or water.


So you would recommend DAP then, mack? I'm starting my first viv this weekend and I've been seriously torn about this bio-seal thing. Some people say it's fine, others say it's the cause of spindly leg. Then there is another group saying the fumes from DAP are much worse than the GE silicone. Plus, I'm in Canada, so I'm not even sure what's available here yet! Talk about confused...:roll:

Good advice about the Great Stuff. So you apply dark silicone to the outer back and sides of your vivs? Do you have pictures?

Thanks for the clarification!

Cheers.

Mike
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#17
could someone point me towards some articles discussing the bioseal-spindly leg link? I've heard this idea suggested,but never seen any substantiated claims.
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#18
hey afterdark,

you have to make your own call on the silicone issue. GE silicone III was the recommended product for several years. the company then added a bioseal label (mold inhibitor). upon investigation it turns out that the product always had mold inhibitor.

folks who know more about chemistry than i do have read the full data sheets for several types of silicone. you can search the boards for more info. DAP checked out clean, and has a "food safe" label, which GE does not. you still need to make sure you get the right DAP...look for the food safe label.

i don't know of anyone who claims that to know that mold inhibitor causes sls. it certainly is not the one and only cause, as people who don't use silicone at all still have sls. however, i've read studies on environmental pollution where tadpoles not morphing properly was the indicator for pollution (herbicides, in this instance). with the sensitivity of amphibians compounded by the difficult task of undergoing metamorphosis, i feel that i'd rather not expose my tads to mold inhibitor.

i only posted on this thread to point out that there is still some ambiguity (i said the other post sounded "definitive"). i wish i had the true answer handed down on stone tablets, but for now it comes down to your call.
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#19
mack Wrote:hey afterdark,

you have to make your own call on the silicone issue. GE silicone III was the recommended product for several years. the company then added a bioseal label (mold inhibitor). upon investigation it turns out that the product always had mold inhibitor.

folks who know more about chemistry than i do have read the full data sheets for several types of silicone. you can search the boards for more info. DAP checked out clean, and has a "food safe" label, which GE does not. you still need to make sure you get the right DAP...look for the food safe label.

i don't know of anyone who claims that to know that mold inhibitor causes sls. it certainly is not the one and only cause, as people who don't use silicone at all still have sls. however, i've read studies on environmental pollution where tadpoles not morphing properly was the indicator for pollution (herbicides, in this instance). with the sensitivity of amphibians compounded by the difficult task of undergoing metamorphosis, i feel that i'd rather not expose my tads to mold inhibitor.

i only posted on this thread to point out that there is still some ambiguity (i said the other post sounded "definitive"). i wish i had the true answer handed down on stone tablets, but for now it comes down to your call.

Thanks a lot for clearing it up for me. I think my best bet is going to be to shell out about double the $$$ for All-Glass Aquarium Silicone in black. That way I'm not dealing with nasty fumes from DAP or mold inhibitors from GE. That's my plan and I'm stickin to it.Big Grin

cheers.
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#20
Mack, does the dap with the food safe label still produce reallly strong odor? I've heard from people who have tried both that the DAP does smell strongly, more so than GE II. Although I also think that GE II and All-Glass smell strongly as well. My experience is that it is best to use silicone in a well-ventialted area and let it sit for at least a week.
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