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Any way to avoid drilling the tank ?
#1
As I posted in my other thread, I'm setting up a 46 bowfront for a group of orange galacs. I'm planning to have a false bottom about 8" up, which will leave about a foot of tube going up through the back wall of the tank before it drops down to the Eheim canister filter. I really don't want to drill the tank, since I don't have any practical way to do it. Will the canister be able to pull water up and over? If not, are there any alternatives I could use? If I can get away without drilling, I'm going to start building this week. If I have to drill, I don't know when I'll be able to. Using the canister filter is important to me because I'd like to keep (and maybe even breed) some killifish in the water part of the tank.

Steve
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#2
Steve,
it might work if you have the filter sitting on the level with the tank, instead of sitting below the tank. You might sit up the filter and add some water to the tank to try it before you go any farther.
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#3
cindy answered your question, but i'll add a bit "just in case". i got relatively cheap glass drill bits at http://www.shopsmartxpress.com/AmeriGls/MAIN.htm

practice a bit on some glass before you drill the tank, but taken VERY SLOWLY drilling isn't too tricky (assuming you don't have tempered glass, which is impossible to drill.)

the last thing is that many killies require clean water, and with a group of frogs pooping plus dead bugs and plant detritus, it would be really hard to keep the water sparkling clean. the genus rivulus are very tough little fish, and are often reccomended for keeping in vivs. they are very hard to come by, but i just got some from fred at athens aquatics. you can find him on aquabid.com and contact him about rivulus which are available. rivulus xiphidius is the prettiest of the rivs, but WHOLLY UNSUITED to viv life as they need very very clean COOL water.
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#4
Hmm, maybe the killifish aren't the best idea.

Has anyone kept bettas in a viv before? One nice one would probably be enough to draw some attention to the water, and I'm sure anything in the viv would be a better habitat for them than the 8 ounce fishbowls they usually end up in.
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#5
Unless you have a huge tank - Paladarium-like and a great built in filter,ect....I would not consider any sort of fish in a Dart Frog Vivarium. Also, if it's your first tank or you are fairly new to the frog hobby, start small and simple and maybe think towards a really big tank and complicated water systems after a few years and species are under your belt.

Drilling isn't the easiest and is not at all necessary. Most hobbyist either syphon, turkey baster or other - rather than drill and bulkhead a tank. Out of 30 some vivariums, only @ 4 of mine are drilled. No biggie.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#6
I have a 20gal sump on my 75gal and no matter how many water changes or the filters in place the water is dark brown from tannins leaching into it. Unless you keep the water feature completely separate from the drainage layer of your false bottom I am afraid you may be in for a bit of a disappointment.
"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom" LaVey
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#7
I concur with demonic
I set up a 18x18x24 zoomed eith a small pond and put moss ball and 3 ghost shrimp and for the life of me couldnt even see the moss ball let alone the ghost shrimp.
So after 4 mo i took out the pond all together and i feel much better about it.
If i was making a 100+ gal i would def do pond stream set up but the pond area would be seperated from soil/substrate contact!

Sent from taptalk Sprint Evo
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#8
AccidentalChef Wrote:As I posted in my other thread, I'm setting up a 46 bowfront for a group of orange galacs. I'm planning to have a false bottom about 8" up, which will leave about a foot of tube going up through the back wall of the tank before it drops down to the Eheim canister filter. I really don't want to drill the tank, since I don't have any practical way to do it. Will the canister be able to pull water up and over? If not, are there any alternatives I could use? If I can get away without drilling, I'm going to start building this week. If I have to drill, I don't know when I'll be able to. Using the canister filter is important to me because I'd like to keep (and maybe even breed) some killifish in the water part of the tank.

Steve
Hi Steve, I have used plastic Under Gravel aquarium plates with good luck for draining...
To get water to canister, you will want to probably rig a booster pump in the viv to push the water out and over, and have the pressure to get back up , over and in.
Since it may not have enough "umph" on its own.
Cheers!
Todd
http://www.LightYourReptiles.com
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#9
For most of my display vivs, I have a water feature to keep the water flowing so it doesn't get stagnate. I use small fountain pumps like the ZooMed 104. You can get them for as little as $10 online. On vivs without a water feature, I still install one of these and have the hose come out the back of the tank. I just plug it in and the false bottom is drained in a matter of minutes. For those where the pump feeds the water feature, I always construct a small pool from which I siphon water regularly.

I don't have misting system, but mist regularly. About once a week, I give each viv a thorough soaking to rinse down fecal matter and other stuff and then I siphon the water off. Interestingly, since I started doing that I have less problem with SLS.
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#10
JimO Wrote:..... About once a week, I give each viv a thorough soaking to rinse down fecal matter and other stuff and then I siphon the water off. Interestingly, since I started doing that I have less problem with SLS.

Hi Jim,
Do you think that rinsing/ washing out a viv is equivalent to changing water in a fish tank?
reducing build-up of toxic waste by products and concentrated toxins from spraying with undistilled/ un-RO water?
(ie: like copper,heavy metals, salts, possibly arsenic if someone has well water... etc. etc..)

Because I think that hits the nail right on the head!! Idea

I am beginning to think that TVS, (toxic viv syndrome) IS real. Confusedhock:
....and SLS could be just one symptom of it.
Concentrated toxins causing some frog version of thalidomide baby syndrome?

Cheers.
Todd


Arrow
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com
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#11
Yes, that is what I am thinking. Actually it wasn't my idea. Bill Schwinn has had this theory for some time and has had folks conduct subjective experiments. When they didn't flush the substrate, they had SLS, when they did, the SLS went away. I've had quite a bit of problem with SLS in my variabilis group, so I followed Bill's advice and started heavily rinsing and removing the water about two weeks ago. Time will tell, but I've kept track of which egg clutches have been laid since I started the procedure. I plan to report my results to Bill, so that he can publish it in some format.
Venutus1 Wrote:Hi Jim,
Do you think that rinsing/ washing out a viv is equivalent to changing water in a fish tank?
reducing build-up of toxic waste by products and concentrated toxins from spraying with undistilled/ un-RO water?
(ie: like copper,heavy metals, salts, possibly arsenic if someone has well water... etc. etc..)

Because I think that hits the nail right on the head!! Idea

I am beginning to think that TVS, (toxic viv syndrome) IS real. Confusedhock:
....and SLS could be just one symptom of it.
Concentrated toxins causing some frog version of thalidomide baby syndrome?

Cheers.
Todd


Arrow
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com
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#12
JimO Wrote:Yes, that is what I am thinking. Actually it wasn't my idea. Bill Schwinn has had this theory for some time and has had folks conduct subjective experiments. When they didn't flush the substrate, they had SLS, when they did, the SLS went away. I've had quite a bit of problem with SLS in my variabilis group, so I followed Bill's advice and started heavily rinsing and removing the water about two weeks ago. Time will tell, but I've kept track of which egg clutches have been laid since I started the procedure. I plan to report my results to Bill, so that he can publish it in some format.
Venutus1 Wrote:Hi Jim,
Do you think that rinsing/ washing out a viv is equivalent to changing water in a fish tank?
reducing build-up of toxic waste by products and concentrated toxins from spraying with undistilled/ un-RO water?
(ie: like copper,heavy metals, salts, possibly arsenic if someone has well water... etc. etc..)

Because I think that hits the nail right on the head!! Idea

I am beginning to think that TVS, (toxic viv syndrome) IS real. Confusedhock:
....and SLS could be just one symptom of it.
Concentrated toxins causing some frog version of thalidomide baby syndrome?

Cheers.
Todd


Arrow
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com


I wonder what toxin(s) it is ??
Please keep me in the loop on that !
I bet that concentrated toxins, like copper from plumbing, arsenic from well water, built up nitrates all factor into Toxic Viv Syndrome.
Maybe it IS a blessing when my monsoon malfunctions & floods and I have to drain gallons of water out every week!!
Todd
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com
lightyourreptiles@yahoo.com
PS. do u have northern or southern variabilis?
thats all I do. we could swap notes.
(my variabilis tads love flash boiled spinach and romaine... and frozen brine shrimp.)
PM or e/m me your contact info... if you want! Big Grin
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#13
I have a 2.3 group of nominant variabilis (INIBICO). Out of about 16 froglets, I've lost 6 to SLS. So far, my success rate is about 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 make it from egg to healthy froglet. I never thought to use spinach or lettuce. I rotate from powdered algal mix, tadpole bites, and fish flakes.
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#14
Heavy occasional rinsing of a viv ?

Complete tear down and reassemble once per year (spring or summer).

I do it. I believe in it.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#15
Philsuma Wrote:Heavy occasional rinsing of a viv ?

Complete tear down and reassemble once per year (spring or summer).

I do it. I believe in it.


That's why you the man.
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#16
Philsuma Wrote:Heavy occasional rinsing of a viv ?

Complete tear down and reassemble once per year (spring or summer).

I do it. I believe in it.


Not sure I agree with this one Phil, To tear down a viv on a yearly basis seems like it would not only mess with the frogs comfort levels as well as a total killing of the established micro fauna, flora and stability of the viv. It could potentially kill unseeen froglets, tads and the resettleing of mature frogs year after year just seems unneeded if the viv is established with no real worries. I would think with a deccent drainage setup you could just give them a nice rain once a month to rinse through the viv. I would think doing this to more fragile darts could prove costly.

Ive seen no difference in the over all health of the frogs so long as they are qt'd tested and treated if need be. Husbandry practices could very easily be a preventative to this practice. Many froggers have better luck with frogs health and breeding in vivs that have been up well over a year. I know I did.

Michael
Everyday I meet someone I dislike, are you today's pick? If you dislike me it's because somethings wrong with you!

Don't Be A Hybridiot!
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#17
Yeah Mike....let me clarify. These are NOT the obligate tanks.

My "re-done" tanks are simple 20 gallon breeders with tincs / auratus. No need for micofauna there.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#18
I'm not an avid obligate breeder, only have a few was referring to any dart that breeds in viv. I do also think micro fauna is a plus to any viv whether auratus, tincs or terribs. They will all forage on it with the exception Ive heard that terribs don't.

Michael
Everyday I meet someone I dislike, are you today's pick? If you dislike me it's because somethings wrong with you!

Don't Be A Hybridiot!
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#19
^^ Agree about microfuana. If I had a "show tank" or a large complex viv - like one of the 55 gallons you use, I think I would be less inclined to tear it down so often. My 2.2 vanolinii viv contains semi rare hobby plants with a pressed 100% organic background and yes....that one would be an exception too.

I used to have a half dozen 20 gallon/ish size vivs with Tincs and auratus and they were very simple spagnum and LL ect. The amount of frog turds and the simplicity of those tanks....is really what I'm talking about.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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