Mixing Dart Frogs and Reed Frogs ?

[nick11884]

I have an exo terra 12x12x18 is it possible to put in 2 leucs or galactonotus or tincs with 2 Reed frogs ? One is a marbled reed frog and the other is a masked reed frog. Both Reed Frogs are about and inch and a half.

[RichFrye]

With a viv that size , I'd say it's possible to "FIT" a whole bunch of different frogs in there.

[kristy55303]

search mixing threads. pretty positive rich was being sarcastic. we sometimes get tired repearting ourselves :roll: no...not big enough. . dont mix. use as a grow out tank? use this rule. no mixing morphs or species. 3 monthhs quarantine, three clean fecals before permanently entering viv, though that shouldnt have to be said, just known, research, research, research, sorry if i come off as blunt. and one frog per ten gallons is a good rule as a minimum. leucs a pair would be mimimally good in a 20 tall tank i believe and i like to put my tinc morphs in bigger bthan that. kristy

[BLD79]

Geez Rich, that was a little on the "I hate newbies" side don't you think? My mother always told me "if I don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" and that was hardly "nice".

Nick, the easiest way to answer this is that the size viv you have is too small for any of the larger darts, let alone multilple darts and it's never a good idea to mix frogs whether it be different species or even different morphs of the same species. Kristy mentioned the 10 gal per frog rule, which is a basic generalization but it seems to work for most of us. The larger the better, but too small makes big problems.

If your like me and have never been part of a user forum until you joined this one, than I have a few suggestions for you that will help you to learn and filter out bad advice or sarcasm from some of the older members. First of all, read read read. Learn as much as you can from previous info that has been discussed in the past on this and other forums. This will answer a lot of questions for you and will cut down on the "DO A SEARCH" responses to questions you may post that we have all seen over and over. Some people enjoy helping the new dart keepers, others are annoyed by peoples either unwillingness or just plain not knowing how to search for what many consider to be basic common knowledge. Hopefully more people will be willing to help you in the future when you have questions.

Think of it this way, now you have a reason to build a new viv!

[alex_azure]

Hey there,
To be honest.....that tank is ok for smaller" thumbnail" species....have you thought about maybe having just a pair of thumbnails....you may be thinking "i don't want small frogs" but go on this link.... http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/amphibians.html
scroll down to the Vicent's poison dart frog........that is how cool thumbnails can be maybe this is an option for your tank?
I know this is an english website hence me being from england
but this could give you some ideas?

Sarcasm is not called for....i was a so called "noob" about 18 months ago and know how it feels to know hardly anything about something your very passionate about...but like kristy says....just study study study...thats what i did for months on end....and i am by no means saying i know all and am some sort of proffesional because i am not, anyways hope this helps a bit.

cool frog though eh???

[kristy55303]

alex i have to disagree with doing thumbnails in his first darts. needs more experience and more research. rich likes it when introductions are made, which is reasonable, and members get tired of answering posts that were just answered not too long ago. don't give him such a hard time. i would use it as a grow out tank to be honest, then when you need fresh cleean plants you can move some of those to your new viv that you set up for a pair of leucs. grow out vivs are great and beneficial. kristy

[alex_azure]

I personally think that we all worry about these frogs a little to much....i keep my pair of blue frogs (azureus) in my bedroom which in all fairness....is not amazingly warm...with just the added heat of the lights from the exo terra? sure, i have had custom glass made to cover the screening of the exo to keep in humidity etc etc....but... they are absolutely fine....they eat (lots) everyday... are extemely active and breed. There is no additional heating or fancy misting systems. I mist them every other day with a hand mister and they are fine fat and healthy. I bet people are reading this thinking... hock: "OMG WHAT IS HE DOING...HOW DO THEY SURVIVE" but they do and there fine. The reason i pointed him in the thumbnails direction was because, when i was first starting out people said don't have azureus to start out with....then 5 mins later someone else is saying they are the best to start with??? at the end of the day....yes, these frogs are all different and have different personalitys and behave differently but they are all the same thing. as long as they have good housing and a good feeding regime they will be fine, and i agree you need to study study study but ones thats done and your competent enough and have the right equipment....i personally think that you can choose any frog you like. Thats why i don't believe in "starter" frogs because if you get (the above) right they will be fine.
Also if mr richard is board of ansering "noob" questions then why take the time out to do so????....and then do it sarcastically??
What im trying to explain above is...there is not a begginer frog....my friend over here in england has a pair of those frogs that i put in my answer above (see link) and they were his first frogs and there fine because he has the basics right. i think that we worry about them a little to much sometimes....there tougher than they look.

[RichFrye]

Geez BLD79, didn't catch your name ...,no , not hating newbies at all -Hate people's attitude on refusing to do a single bit of work on their own.

Here is something nice I say, that gets thrown by the wayside all too often:

Can anybody imagine if we had a nice , long thread with tons of people contributing to a topic like "How Many". The same topic that hundreds of different people have taken upon themselves to start anew , each and every week. If we had this one thread everybody could read all of the interesting posts from all of those who wanted to contribute. Instead, we get hundreds and hundreds of "How Manys" and "Is it OK to Mix These?" each and every week that have the same old, "Well that depends on a number of factors". Gets a few more posts agreeing with the first guy and goes absolutely nowhere after that. Useless waste of space. The search function does not even need to work . All you need to do is go to the general, newbie, of area of like and read a couple threads down for a head of "Mixing OK?, "How Many?, or "HELP, MY FROG IS SPAZZIN!, HELP!".

People, the nicest thing I can pass along is that the questions have all been answered. All you are doing by habitually starting "new" threads on old beaten up topics is taking away from what could be ONE nice , big INFORMATIVE thread on "How Many" or "Mixing".

If anyone wants to go more in-depth on the down sides to not doing any research at all before posting , I am up for it.
One last thing people who think I am mean do not understand. This hobby is not one of impulse buys. It takes lots of work , AKA research, to make it work out OK FOR THE FROGS. I see tons of newbies come in, get coddled and kill forgs. This is not OK to me, and never will be. If someone does not have the drive to find the tiniest bit of info on their own, they do not deserve to be work with dart frogs.

Simple.

[RichFrye]

I'm glad after 18 months you have all the answers Alex. If you want to get into the pros and cons of doing zero, zero work on your own, I am more than up for it . I can point out more than a few things where you are off base pertaining to dart husbandry, but would hate for it to be seen as being mean.

[alex_azure]

Well my frogs are fine so i don't care what you think about my care of frogs or me for that matter... i never once said i "knew all" but some people seem to think they do....???
if your that pi$$$$ off with answering noob questions...why have you taken out the time in your obviously "busy schedule" to click on the thread and answer it??? and then be sarcastic about it??
and he probably is doing research......on here!!! im pretty sure this site was made for that reason.....maybe just me.
but what a silly plkace to come and ask for advice.....what was he thinking???? (courtesy of the rich fry sarcasm school)
No one put a gun to your head and told you to answer it.....or did they.

p.s obviously frogs are allot tougher in england!

[RichFrye]

They're (two whole frogs !) fine after a whole year and a half ?! That is some feat right there, seeing how they can live to be decades old...But, good for you Alex.

As far as why I post a sarcastic answer, well I knew that one post here would not be my last in this thread. I knew I would have to come back here and explain why it is lazy and counter productive to simply post whatever you want to , regardless of how many times people do take out of their busy schedules to deal with questions asked a million times and deal with people who are experts after a few months, and feel the need to be the polite police. 18 equals a few in my book Alex.
Research is not asking the most simple and frequently asked questions in the hobby, research is reading those already asked to death questions and actually digesting the information people have been good enough to write already. That's what these forums are for . Actual fact sharing, not hand holding. But I have to guess you are ruffled up because you were/are one of the guys who feels the need to ask "How Many?' when the same exact question was posted two threads down, two days ago. Am I missing something here , or is it you are pissed off simply because I am calling "lazy" on this Alex?
Seriously though, for the rest out there who do want to learn and not just join a fun club, darts have the potential to live decades. Decades, not years , and they are more fragile than Alex would let on. Just ask anybody who actually know a bit about darts where all of the pumilio have gone that were imported by the thousands in the last couple years. But , as Alex likes to say, there are no "starter frogs". They all have exactly the same requirements and are all as hardy as each other...Not true.

Read Nick. Read until your eyes are sore. There is tons of good hard facts about darts out there , much of it written here, much more on other forums as well. Employ the search function and look for recurring threads.

[BLD79]

Sorry Rich, I had to re-register so my user name changed slightly but I introduced myself when I first joined this board. I'm Brian. We have spoken in threads and via e-mail/pm before. I know you like to have introductions. The fact of the matter is that with darts, as with all pets/animals in general is that no matter what you or I or anyone else does there is always gonna be the impulsive and uninformed buyer. Most people who have the information new keepers are asking about do one of 2 things. They either answer the question in some way that may help the person whether it be a link to an old post or a direct answer, or they just ignore the thread. Often times not getting an answer at all prompts people to begin to search out info on their own. Think of it like training. I know that when I first got into darts I had never been on a user forum. I joined one to learn. Not knowing how forums worked I knew nothing of the search functions and thought it would be best to just ask. A few stupid question later was all it took for me to take the steps towards learning on my own as much as possible. Partly to not look stupid on a public forum, but mostly for the sake of the frogs. Everybody starts somewhere. Whether or not we choose to help them is up to us, but chasing people away with sarcastic answers does nothing for the dart keeping community. Someone would have eventually pointed him in the right direction.

[RichFrye]

First off Brian, how would Nick know I was being sarcastic, until it was pointed out? And , as it was, I came back to explain my point.
People are of the nature to do as little as possible and I am here to point out that there are a number of cons to simply doing zero research before posting and/or buying darts.
So, my sarcastic answers have actually helped in they do at times get people to realize there are better ways.
And if any of you think I do not answer tons of newbie questions, you are WAY off base. I answer stuff all the time. And point out when it is best to do the tiniest bit of work too.

[BLD79]

Rich, I know better than to accuse you of never helping newbs with their questions, as I have seen you give out advice time and time again. That's not where I was going. As for not knowing if you were being sarcastic, he may not have and that's a problem. Maybe he took the first answer he got and went and threw all his frogs together. Who knows. Our concerns should be for all frogs, not just the experienced keepers frogs. I know you feel that your style of answers to new, repetitive, beaten to death and often rediculous questions are both helpful and warranted, and in many cases I agree but I just think it's better in the long run that we either ignore or reply with something the original poster can walk away with thinking "thanks, that makes sense" or "that was helpful". Not looking to bash you, just thought we could all be a little more friendly. Please don't take offense, just putting in my .02

[RichFrye]

I take no offense to you at all Brian. I take offense to someone who would actually throw a bunch of frogs together as you think he may have done.

This hobby needs more quality people , not just more people. By simply posting the same questions again and again these people are hurting the hobby by not allowing us to have an in-depth conversation on "mixing". Instead we now are having a discussion on being nice , as opposed to having a conversation on how many frogs die each and every year because not enough experienced froggers told these people to do a BUNCH of work and research before buying frogs. Nobody ever wants to hear they are going about the process in the incorrect way. It hurts their feelings. Well, it hurts my feelings to think people don't bother to research, use the search feature here and take the time to look thru past posts. And it hurts my feelings when I read posts like "my frog is acting funny and can't move it's back legs", answered by a post something along the lines of "how often do you supplement? It's OK , we all make mistakes". Followed by "sorry to hear about your loss..."

Let's start thinking more about the frog's welfare and a bit less about ruffling the feathers of those who do zero research and clutter the forums.

[nx2ured]

Put 'em all in there and when one dies from stress...you'll realize why you shouldn't mix.

[Philsuma]

Overly harsh towards a New hobbyist perhaps ?

Not in my opinion.